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  #25  
Old May 27th, 2019, 07:29 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design

Hmm, I appreciate the goals you have but the implementation is not there yet. On the first power, the bit about being forced to take LEAs is clunky; scratch it. On the second power... I don't think I see the theme, and that makes the whole thing feel forced.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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  #26  
Old May 27th, 2019, 07:50 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design

Would something like a hot steam release with lavarock rules be better? Or maybe it’ll glitch out and whatever’s on/around could get shuffled around at the end of the round?

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  #27  
Old May 27th, 2019, 08:36 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design

I don't hate it, but cap is right. It's trying too hard. I don't know why it has to have a sci-fi theme, when all the same stuff can be accomplished more simply and more clearly without it.

Quote:
SCALING
Figures that begin their movement adjacent to a cryptolith may move to the top of that cryptolith instead of moving normally.
Short, to the point, no need for an "engagement" clause since it'll apply normally.

Quote:
CROSSWINDS
Figures cannot move to the top of the cryptolith except with Scaling.
Again, straight to the point. Could use a better name, be rolled into Scaling, or rolled in and a better name.

Quote:
UNSTABLE FOOTING
When this crypolith receives a wound, a figure on top of it must be placed on a space adjacent to it by its controller and roll an attack die. On a skull, that figure receives a wound. If that figure cannot be placed, it is destroyed.
This one was closer. Unstable Footing makes sense; Weird Footing just begs the question "but why is it weird?" Take out the "height" bit (there's only one space on top so pretty much any figure that can get there will be affected anyway). Add that it's destroyed if it can't be placed (prevents getting your Raelin up there and fully surrounding the cryptolith for immunity). May or may not need to mention falling damage (or lack thereof, whichever way we decide to go).

Two or three powers, all very clear and straightforward wording, no need to muddy things with a sci-fi theme. (Yes, they're strange-looking towers, but let them just be strange-looking towers without trying to force a theme, especially if that theme is optional and half the time they might just be terrain with no rules anyway.)

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  #28  
Old May 27th, 2019, 08:46 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design

I like that proposal NB, although Crosswinds feels like a thematic leap that we don't need. If we look at these from a competitive standpoint, mapmakers are already going to avoid placing the Cryptoliths near either player's start zone to avoid providing an easy place to camp and fire from. We certainly can take a special effort to prevent them from being used as Raelin perches on top of that, but any decently skilled mapmaker will be able to minimize that risk through design alone.

Other than that, I think we should probably specify that only Small or Medium figures can scale on occupy the Cryptoliths. I'd assume that Deathwalker 9k or Moltenclaw are a bit too chufty to comfortably sit on the pillar.
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  #29  
Old May 27th, 2019, 08:50 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design

I don't see much need for making the rules optional, considering how little line-of-sight protection they actually offer, but that's fine.

I disagree on the lack of a sci-fi theme. Scaling is a better and clearer name, but Crosswinds makes me wonder why only those spaces are inaccessible to flyers and other figures that can move over spaces. A sci-fi theme, on the other hand (be it a warp field or something else), can better explain this discrepancy. That said, I think that the text in Crosswinds fits better as just being put at the end of Scaling, which removes this problem altogether.

I also think that Unstable Footing is better than Weird Footing, which poses more questions than it answers. Combined with Scaling, I think that both names are pretty straightforward. A sci-fi theme in this case would be better suited to the name of the Destructible Object, such as a Recon Tower or some kind of a SoulBorg deployment.
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  #30  
Old May 27th, 2019, 08:58 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design

The problem with Crosswinds as a power is that we’d have people assuming that the things are traversable (even just with flying) when these guys don’t have their “powers” working. So either we’ll have to make a note of that in the rules anyway, or ignore Crosswinds and make it only scale-able with Scaling. The Marvel Ruins piece has the same issue.

Although, this thing doesn’t look like you can climb it anyway. It’s quite rounded, and the top bows back out.

Also, I included the Height bit because a single spacer can be taller than it (the Frost Giant is equal height for example), even if none of them are bigger yet.

Besides, this thing isn’t a tree or a bush, it’s some type of magical/sci-fi pillar. It probably should do *something* unless it’s out of gas or whatever.

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  #31  
Old May 27th, 2019, 09:32 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design

Guys, I literally said name it something else or stick it with Scaling. Either way it does what it needs to do (keep fliers from perching easily) without tacked-on theme.

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Last edited by NecroBlade; May 27th, 2019 at 09:35 PM. Reason: stupid computer acting up
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  #32  
Old May 27th, 2019, 10:12 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design

What makes a deliberate Sci-fi theme tacked on, exactly?

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  #33  
Old May 28th, 2019, 02:51 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design

I don't understand the theme behind Crosswinds. I mean, I do--as a map-specific effect. But I don't understand why the Cryptolith* always generates Crosswinds over it? And if it does, why can figures fly *over* it but not land *on* it?

I like Scaling! Or at least I think I do. It is simple, but it might need a slightly different name in order to better communicate a theme that fits the mechanic.

I think Moltenclaw should be able to land on a Cryptolith just fine but I would need to pull them both out and see; maybe I'll be persuaded the other way.

Instead of calling the third one Unstable Footing just call it Unstable and I think I'm more or less sold. However, I think the figure should be able to be placed where the Cryptolith *was* after a wound is placed to destroy it, and the current wording doesn't allow that.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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Last edited by capsocrates; May 28th, 2019 at 04:27 PM. Reason: * Cryptolith is spelled with a 't' ;)
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  #34  
Old May 28th, 2019, 09:59 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design

Would this be better?

(Assuming the same rules, although I’m ok with not allowing toggling).

Crypolith Warp Field:
Before moving a figure you control that is adjacent or on top of this Crypolith, you may either place that figure on top of this Crypolith or adjacent to this Crypolith. Figures being placed by Crypolith Warp Field will receive any Leaving Engagement attacks.

Unstable
When this Crypolith receives a wound or is destroyed, a figure on top of it must be placed on a space adjacent to it by its controller, or on the space it previously occupied.

The rules mean we can omit Crosswinds, and it’s much easier to explain a Warp Field from a mysterious tower causing some issues with flight than it is to ask why Crosswinds applies for these things but not 30 Levels high mountains.

I’d also like to point out that balance for the sake of balance is nice, but it’s far more important that mapmakers who decide to use this set actually *want* to use the rules. A short range “warp” that helps melee units reach their ranged targets after hiding behind it (it provides a little bit of cover, and has stopped clear sight a couple of times) and actually gives mapmakers a new tool. Forcing players to cap their FotA towers made those maps generally less balanced, until the later competitive map groups (like ARV) decided to forgo that. I brought up the Marvel Ruins piece earlier as another example of modern mapmakers not using the stuff “correctly”. I’ve played on maps where they rip the 2nd level out of the thing. And then we have the Fortress Door, in all of its invincible glory. That people deliberately use custom rules for, or just don’t use it.

This thing isn’t a unit, but we should still *want* to use it outside of AotV.

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  #35  
Old May 29th, 2019, 05:24 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design

I think I'm sold. However, should Unstable be an always-on-all-the-time effect? I guess it makes sense since damaging the cryptolith is not a given, so there's already an element of chance in investing an attack in it.

How does this interact with area-of-effect attacks? Can they hit the cryptolith *and* the figure on top of it *and* figures adjacent to it?

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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  #36  
Old May 29th, 2019, 06:02 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Crypolith) - Pod 0 - Design

Iíll have to dig through the AotP rulebooks to see if that was ever addressed, but if it wasnít we will have to address it ourselves.

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