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  #37  
Old May 17th, 2019, 08:54 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I'd rather not rename functionally identical powers, it's something I disliked every time official scape did it. That said, we could easily make a version of stealth dodge that only works against normal attacks, although that would imply that teleportation/dimension shifting to avoid attacks is somehow worse than matrix dodging. Which is a little odd.
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  #38  
Old May 17th, 2019, 09:26 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I lean Phased Out not for the novelty but because Stealth Dodge is more "close but not quite" like Phantom Walk was.

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  #39  
Old May 18th, 2019, 02:07 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

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Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
I lean Phased Out not for the novelty but because Stealth Dodge is more "close but not quite" like Phantom Walk was.
This too. Agreed.
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  #40  
Old May 18th, 2019, 03:01 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I can get behind that reasoning for going with Phased Out. Stealth Dodge feels less off to me personally, but I like the added feeling of these guys becoming visible after they've taken a turn. Just as a quick brainstorm to explore more ideas:

Phased Out
If there are no revealed Order Markers on this card, then when rolling defense dice for a SPOOKY ALIEN, one shield will block all damage.

The main change here in my eyes is that it gives them the boost when in melee as well, given that they're supposed to be phased out of the battlefield altogether. That might prove problematic in practice, though it can be balanced by their Unique stature and them losing all protection whenever they try to take a turn.
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  #41  
Old May 18th, 2019, 03:12 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

That risks them taking a Defender role, which is cool with me, but I was under the impression these guys were going more for an Attacking role.

No complaints on either route though.

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  #42  
Old May 19th, 2019, 12:00 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I like NB's version of Phased Out. And I definitely don't like Stealth Dodge for these guys; I don't think it fits.

I like the general idea. I still like the idea of doing a phase grab though. What about something along these lines:

PHASE GRAB
Instead of moving normally, you may choose an adjacent figure, place a PHASER on an empty space within 3 clear sight spaces. If you chose an adjacent figure you must roll the 20-sided die. On a 9 or higher, you may place the chosen figure on an empty same-level space adjacent to the PHASER. On a 16 or higher, you may also inflict one wound on the chosen figure.

Numbers up for change; wording is rough.

The instead of moving normally is because it is basically like a Shaolin Monk Stealth Leap, and replacing movement is simpler than adding to it.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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  #43  
Old May 19th, 2019, 12:34 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I still prefer the simple move > blink. Nothing here really says to me that they need to grab people and pull them through a blink.
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  #44  
Old May 19th, 2019, 01:36 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I like the grab idea because it's something we haven't seen before (and it evokes alien abductions, which I quite like the theme of for these guys given the other sci-fi tropes).

I'd be willing to sacrifice the move then blink power to get an instead-of-moving blink with Phase Grab like caps proposed. I'm not a huge fan of Stealth Leap, but the grab seems like it would be fun to play around with and play differently than what largely amounts to a disengage.
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  #45  
Old May 19th, 2019, 03:40 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I like Phase Grab in theory, but like the simpler version of these guys more.

As to 3M + Blink 3 spaces, Negation is a thing and I'd rather not see these guys completely neutered by it. Blink 2 spaces is just enough to get through a ruin/wall, and can still fully disengage you around a screen any way but straight through. (note that I removed "clear sight" to make this happen, as intended)

The "Stealth Dodge but only while no revealed OMs" version of Phased Out isn't bad (since it does help with melee), but the lack of hit zones still feels preferable thematically.

Current discussion in the OP.

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  #46  
Old May 19th, 2019, 04:53 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
I like Phase Grab in theory, but like the simpler version of these guys more.

As to 3M + Blink 3 spaces, Negation is a thing and I'd rather not see these guys completely neutered by it. Blink 2 spaces is just enough to get through a ruin/wall, and can still fully disengage you around a screen any way but straight through. (note that I removed "clear sight" to make this happen, as intended)
Eh, negation is so rare as-is (only Morsbane and a glyph come to mind as opportunities) that I'm fine with letting it counter them like many other units. Morsbane, although more usable with Haduc, will probably be even rarer than the negation glyph for most players, so I don't personally think it's worth changing their design over it. I'd be more concerned if we were still discussing negation on another design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
The "Stealth Dodge but only while no revealed OMs" version of Phased Out isn't bad (since it does help with melee), but the lack of hit zones still feels preferable thematically.
Just to be clear, you feel like them not being visible is more thematically important than being tougher against melee when phased out?
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  #47  
Old May 22nd, 2019, 09:14 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I'd be OK with getting outvoted on 3/3 Blink.

And yes, being "invisible" seems more thematically appropriate to me than being tougher/stealth.

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  #48  
Old May 22nd, 2019, 06:06 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] UNIT NAME (Leyline Phantoms) - Design

I prefer 4/2 Move/Blink personally. Even if a unit gets negated it should still be capable of moving. The only things that go 3 spaces are literally rock-people and they too can walk 4 spaces with Leadership.

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