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  #1  
Old September 14th, 2022, 10:32 AM
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The importance of minute hit zone/target point adjustments

This came up in my Season 49 game with @Captain Stupendous yesterday and I thought it was worth sharing. Ask yourself: in the following scenario, is there any way that Raelin can have line of sight to the Marro Drone adjacent to the uppermost rock pillar?




To make things easier, let's visualise Raelin's LOS by drawing 2 straight lines from her target point past the rock pillar directly in front of her. Anything behind the pillar that lies between the 2 lines, she can't see.




As you can see, it's quite a large space. However, there is a way we can adjust the area Raelin can see from her current tile. Let's rotate Raelin 90 degrees and move her to the left edge of the hex she's currently occupying.




Raelin can see the vast majority of the level 2 shadow space now, and she hasn't lost LOS to the other 2 drones adjacent to the level 4 height - not bad at all. Let's try rotating our drone adjacent to the rock pillar and see what happens.




Success! The very tip of the Marro Drone's sword protrudes into Raelin's LOS and the Drone can add 1 to his defence thanks to Extended Defensive Aura. This makes it more likely for him to block a potential height attack from Cyprien the following turn.

What do you guys think? Does anyone have any examples where a small adjustment to a figure's target point or hit zone had a large impact on the outcome of a game? Is this practice morally acceptable considering it pushes the rules around clear line of sight to their very limits? Am I an asshole for doing this to Captain Stupendous considering that I was probably going to win this game anyway?

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  #2  
Old September 14th, 2022, 11:55 AM
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Re: The importance of minute hit zone/target point adjustmen

It was definitely an interesting situation for sure! I personally think you were justified in doing this, but thats mainly because the Drone's sculpt extends so far beyond its hex that the LOS was pretty clearly fine.

Trying to fudge that LOS with a more normal sculpt would be a lot more iffy in my opinion.
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  #3  
Old September 14th, 2022, 12:14 PM
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Re: The importance of minute hit zone/target point adjustmen

For the record and not to get pedantic, but worth pointing out since you have a whole thread devoted to it, you're using Line of Sight when you mean Clear Sight.

Clear sight is seeing any part of a figure from your target point. Line of sight is seeing a figure's hit zone from your target point. Raelin only cares about clear sight with her aura. (She's not a ranged attacker, so she doesn't care about LOS at all, except when hiding from it).

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Old September 14th, 2022, 01:35 PM
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Re: The importance of minute hit zone/target point adjustmen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Waves View Post
What do you guys think? Does anyone have any examples where a small adjustment to a figure's target point or hit zone had a large impact on the outcome of a game? Is this practice morally acceptable considering it pushes the rules around clear line of sight to their very limits? Am I an asshole for doing this to Captain Stupendous considering that I was probably going to win this game anyway?
This happens during every game I play and has played an important role in scores of them. It really isn't a big deal, and definitely doesn't merit a moral debate or petty name calling.
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Old September 14th, 2022, 01:48 PM
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Re: The importance of minute hit zone/target point adjustmen

That’s the way heroescape is played.

This is one of the main reasons you’re freely able to adjust all of your figures on your turn even the ones you’re not activating. You can turn them into a Raelin’s aura or hide their hand behind a tree so it doesn’t get shot off.

Now, I will say if you are adjusting your figures when your opponent is trying to shoot at them, then you’re doing it wrong. Figures need to be adjusted before the end of your turn. You are not permitted to adjust your figures when it is not your turn.

A must read for all 'Scapers!

Last edited by R˙chean; September 15th, 2022 at 10:42 AM. Reason: Figures not fingers, shot not shut
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Old September 14th, 2022, 02:38 PM
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Re: The importance of minute hit zone/target point adjustmen

Just to be clear, no one ever accused GW of being an a hole during our game; as I said above I think that GW was perfectly justified in using that tactic in this instance.

I've always enjoyed my games with GW and look forward to having the pleasure of facing him again
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Old September 14th, 2022, 03:44 PM
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Re: The importance of minute hit zone/target point adjustmen

Yeah, as I played drones this season I also did a fair amount of thinking which drone sculpt should go where for LoS reasons.

Keep in mind though that the Raelin adjustment is somewhat overstated on OHS due to the angle of the picture: Raelin stands relatively straight up but occasionally the topdowns are taken too close to the figure and have a little skewed perspective to them.
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Old September 14th, 2022, 04:23 PM
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Re: The importance of minute hit zone/target point adjustmen

Yeah sometimes in the online events you have to be more lenient on LOS checks due to the nature of how the miniature was photographed.
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Old September 14th, 2022, 08:03 PM
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Re: The importance of minute hit zone/target point adjustmen

I think it's recognizing decisions and situations like this that draw a line between beginning or average players and higher level players. A newer player may have consented that the figure was out of clear sight and not messed with it, or not thought about confirming it, until it was too late.

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Old September 16th, 2022, 09:43 AM
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Re: The importance of minute hit zone/target point adjustmen

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
For the record and not to get pedantic, but worth pointing out since you have a whole thread devoted to it, you're using Line of Sight when you mean Clear Sight.

Clear sight is seeing any part of a figure from your target point. Line of sight is seeing a figure's hit zone from your target point. Raelin only cares about clear sight with her aura. (She's not a ranged attacker, so she doesn't care about LOS at all, except when hiding from it).
Ah, I overlooked that; thanks for pointing it out. Pretty sure the meaning is clear even though the terminology is not 100% correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infectedsloth View Post
It really isn't a big deal, and definitely doesn't merit a moral debate or petty name calling.
Yeah I realise that in the scheme of things it's probably not that big of a deal; it does stretch the rules around clear sight to their absolute limits though so I could see some (less competitively-minded) players getting annoyed by it. A lot of people I've met don't routinely draw a line when they have to make a LOS call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Keep in mind though that the Raelin adjustment is somewhat overstated on OHS due to the angle of the picture: Raelin stands relatively straight up but occasionally the topdowns are taken too close to the figure and have a little skewed perspective to them.
Something to bear in mind for sure. This issue doesn't just affect certain figures - the ROTV ruins have a slant to them as well that's not present IRL due to the angle at which they were photographed. Obviously it's not usually practical to build the map irl in cases like this though.

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Old September 16th, 2022, 08:43 PM
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Re: The importance of minute hit zone/target point adjustmen

I think Raelin can actually see more than you were giving her credit for. The line of sight markers you drew go around the base of the rock formation, but the rock formations taper off towards the top. Additionally, Raelin's head isn't laying on the ground, she stands 5 hexes tall and she's on top of a 4 hex space. Wouldn't that mean that the angle formed by the los markers you drew could have been significantly smaller?
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