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  #4393  
Old December 21st, 2020, 05:55 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop


Would this guy be an acceptable Greek or Roman (sorry Iím not sure which he would be more suited for)?

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  #4394  
Old December 21st, 2020, 06:19 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Definitely getting some Byzantine vibes from that figure. What figure is it and where is it from? It's so hard to find good, mounted stuff
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  #4395  
Old December 21st, 2020, 06:27 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
Definitely getting some Byzantine vibes from that figure. What figure is it and where is it from? It's so hard to find good, mounted stuff
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  #4396  
Old December 21st, 2020, 06:42 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by heroscaper2010 View Post

Would this guy be an acceptable Greek or Roman (sorry Iím not sure which he would be more suited for)?
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  #4397  
Old December 21st, 2020, 08:10 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Yeah, definitely not roman or greek. Byzantine? sure, maybe. His weapon is just a bit odd and seems more fantasy than historical
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  #4398  
Old December 30th, 2020, 10:37 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Looking to get Tatomb reviewed! I've done some tests and revisions with him to arrive at the current version. His figure was decently available last I checked and I wanted to try and start the process or see if his design direction is feasible.

Availability:
Miniature Market - 19
MeepleMart - 5
Magic Miniman - 5
Troll and Toad - 4
Tritex Games - 14
Ebay - 20+ available
Amazon - 5
Total found on first page of google: 70~

The figure used is Karrnathi Skeleton (swords) #002 from Eberron: Rising from the Last War.

CHARACTER BIO:
Spoiler Alert!


CARD TEXT:
Spoiler Alert!


He is a +1 to the stats of a Tomb Skeleton as far as attack, move and defense goes. Just a big skeleton with commander abilities and is offensively oriented. Creates the feel of the classic hoard of skeletons in diablo or any other dungeon crawler, not difficult to beat but brings a whole glob of undead rattling bones in Valhalla. Current tests have proved that he is ok against randomly assembled rabble and can cobble together an interesting offensive if he has the opportunity but he doesn't stack up against the standard 4 man bonding squads because the skeletons are inferior.

His double attack, while strong has only served to help him "ebb and flow" in the front line. It's typical for 1 or 2 of his tomb skeletons to bite the dust on a turn and he gets engaged, he clears away a threat and pulls more skeletons to the front.

Last edited by Shiftrex; December 31st, 2020 at 12:04 AM.
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  #4399  
Old December 31st, 2020, 07:50 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Stats seem solid, though appears at first glance to be overpriced.

Skeletal Form is overly messy. Simply make it a +1 against non-adjacent figures. Restrict it to normal attacks depending on the theme you want.

Captain of the Guard is dangerous in concept; reverse-bonding is generally disliked, though limiting it to specific squads helps a ton. The biggest problem is the "uncertain future requirement" problem. Despite best intentions, you cannot guarantee that a figure you take a turn with will end that turn within 3 spaces of Tatomb. It might get destroyed by Counter Strike, for example, or Tatomb himself could be killed by Dying Swipe. And if the figure cannot end its turn near Tatomb, then it could not have taken the turn in the first place, in which case the effect that caused that to occur could not have taken place. It just doesn't work. Just make it so that they have to start their turn near Tatomb and that fixes the problem.
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  #4400  
Old December 31st, 2020, 07:59 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Stats seem solid, though appears at first glance to be overpriced.

Skeletal Form is overly messy. Simply make it a +1 against non-adjacent figures. Restrict it to normal attacks depending on the theme you want.

Captain of the Guard is dangerous in concept; reverse-bonding is generally disliked, though limiting it to specific squads helps a ton. The biggest problem is the "uncertain future requirement" problem. Despite best intentions, you cannot guarantee that a figure you take a turn with will end that turn within 3 spaces of Tatomb. It might get destroyed by Counter Strike, for example, or Tatomb himself could be killed by Dying Swipe. And if the figure cannot end its turn near Tatomb, then it could not have taken the turn in the first place, in which case the effect that caused that to occur could not have taken place. It just doesn't work. Just make it so that they have to start their turn near Tatomb and that fixes the problem.
Skeletal form is an existing VC power on the 2 customs that this guy is designed to work with. Tomb Skeletons and Tomb Skeleton Archers. Is there a reason it wouldn’t be accept nowadays? Also the reverse bonding has precedence, which is why I pursued named squads ala Kato the Daiymo.

I am guessing that I have to extend his command bubble then because at 3 spaces for a “start here bubble” that’ll make things even more slow. I can also work on a lower price point.

Last edited by Shiftrex; December 31st, 2020 at 08:01 PM. Reason: Understands the concept now
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  #4401  
Old December 31st, 2020, 08:18 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I like the idea of a Tomb Skeleton commander well enough. They're some of the less appreciated squads, I think, and they could function well as dungeon crawl baddies. I do have some quibbles with the design that I think could be improved, though.

Frankly, I think that Skeletal Form is a bad power. There are plenty of Clerics and Wizards with 1 range (some of the most notable 'Scape Wizards use 1 range and a Special Attack), and the power still works against melee attacks from ranged figures. It has always felt messy and too "metagame-y" to me. That said, it does make sense to reuse the Tomb Skeletons' defining power here if you want to tie the figure more strongly to them, and it is an existing power already. I think that you can still convey the theme in a stronger way without repeating that particular mistake, but that might just be a matter of personal taste.

I don't think that Double Attack is necessary here. I know the mini has two weapons, but Tatomb is already going to get plenty of attacks in by sheer virtue of unifying two Common Squads. I think that it makes sense to let the skeletal hordes shine in this army and have Tatomb act more as a commander.

I agree with Scytale on Captain of the Guard; it'd be much cleaner and probably achieve much of the same mechanics if the requirement was only that the activated squad figures begin their turn near Tatomb rather than away from him. The skeletons will still want to clump up to a certain extent so that they can leverage the bonus activations, even if they have the option to split off as needed.

Thematically, "Captain of the Guard" as a name sounds a bit too vague for what is very specifically a Tomb Skeleton power, even if they are guards. I would suggest "Captain of the Tomb" or some equivalent (or perhaps even a class of Warden with a matching power name, to better display Tatomb's status above the other skeletons). The Guard class is neat for its synergy, but I think that the added theme is worth considering there. Alternatively, you could take the opposite approach and throw some Guard synergy into Captain of the Guard a la Kato Katsuro, though I can't say that I'm personally super fond of the idea since it encroaches on what made that power special.

Also, why does Tatomb follow Vydar? The stats and powers seem to suggest that this is a beefed up Tomb Skeleton. Valkrill feels like the natural choice here.
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  #4402  
Old December 31st, 2020, 08:35 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
Skeletal form is an existing VC power on the 2 customs that this guy is designed to work with. Tomb Skeletons and Tomb Skeleton Archers. Is there a reason it wouldnít be accept nowadays?
Oh yeah, you're right. Then you should use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
Also the reverse bonding has precedence, which is why I pursued named squads ala Kato the Daiymo.
There is a difference between reverse bonding and commander abilities. Note that commanders don't get to take useful turns, they pretty much just make other units take turns. Kato, Hive, Ulginesh, etc.
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  #4403  
Old December 31st, 2020, 09:41 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

GENERAL = VALKRILL
PLANET = FEYLUND
SPECIES = UNDEAD
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = WARDEN
PERSONALITY = MILITARISTIC
SIZE/HEIGHT = LARGE 7

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = ???

SKELETAL FORM
When rolling defense dice against an attack from a figure with a Range number of 4 or more that is not a Cleric or a Wizard, Tatomb adds 1 die.

MARSHALL OF THE TOMB / TOMB MARSHALL
After revealing an order marker and taking a turn with Tatomb you may take a turn with 1 squad of Tomb Skeletons and/or 1 squad of Tomb Skeleton Archers. Figures activated with THIS POWER NAME must start their turn within 4 clear sight spaces of Tatomb.

___________________

Dropping him to 2 powers definitely simplifies him considerably. I am thinking I would lose out on the theme of being offensively oriented at that point though, right? There is also point total to consider, with a considerable drop in power I’m wondering how low to go.

Tatomb follows Vydar because of his lore, he is a higher ranking and intelligent undead as opposed to a chaotic or mindless undead. It’s meant to contrast a bit, not anything dealbreaking for me to be honest.

Last edited by Shiftrex; December 31st, 2020 at 10:08 PM.
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  #4404  
Old January 3rd, 2021, 06:21 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I think that the changes to Tatomb are quite solid. As a super minor nitpick, I would suggest flipping the order of powers since Skeletal Form is reused from the squads and Marshall of the Tomb is the main power, but that's really just a case of presentation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
Dropping him to 2 powers definitely simplifies him considerably. I am thinking I would lose out on the theme of being offensively oriented at that point though, right? There is also point total to consider, with a considerable drop in power Iím wondering how low to go.
I think that the theme of being offensively oriented still comes through well from the statline and Marshall of the Tomb's focus on him being on the front lines of battle.

As far as points go, the best way to be sure is definitely via playtesting, but as a rough guess, I'd suggest sticking around the ~130 point range for now. Both Tomb Skeleton squads are cheap and spammable like the Ashigaru, and the potential for 8 attacks in one OM is always worth caution. That said, the worse durability of Tatomb and range limit on his activations makes me suspect that it'll be less problematic than Kato's Ashigaru spam.
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