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HeroScape General Discussion General discussions of packaging, terrain, components, etc. If it doesn't fit in any other official category, put it here.


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  #25  
Old January 12th, 2013, 02:39 AM
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Re: Discussion: Why Did Heroscape Fail?

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Also, I'm afraid that the game mostly "failed" because of bad corporate decisions, and we couldn't do much about that. We tried, believe me.
Ironically, I think it may have been handled better if it started out with Wizards of the Coast.
Hmm, I'm curious why you think that? Wouldn't Wizards of the Coast made it completely D&D related thereby losing out the originality of Heroscape?
That bold part being key, if Craig Van Ness, and Rob Daviau were designing this baby on the left coast and WotC released the RotV master set from the beginning, I think it might have been handled better.

That would probably mean better representation in game stores from day one. They might have pushed for master sets in big box stores, but game stores would be more likely to invest the shelf space it really needed. The best I ever saw in a Walmart was shelf space wide enough to show a master set, a castle set, a large hero/terrain expansion and a small expansion wave. That is a ridiculous amount of space taken out of the game aisle at a big box store. When that store is overflowing with Orms Return and Gladiators and Agents, the store manager starts wondering why they ever threw away that much space. A savvy game store owner would
be more likely to manage his inventory, know what moves, and might even invest more shelf space than the Walmart best case scenario.

I also think that if we were talking about distribution problems it wouldn't be because some delusional suit (pantsuit?) thinks they should package 2 large heroes packs for each terrain expansion because kids like dragons.

Also if it was WotC's baby from the beginning, I think they just might have included and maybe preferred hex grids in the 4th edition D&D rules. That is just one step away from producing terrain only packs that are game system independent.
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  #26  
Old January 12th, 2013, 03:18 AM
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Re: Discussion: Why Did Heroscape Fail?

If Heroscape had been compatible with D&D the market would have increased too many times for me to predict. I know I got into scape after learning that some D&D players used the terrain to make their maps and such. How else can you have an uphill battle?

Anyhow, it certainly would have been smart to make Scape easier to use in other game systems or to make other game systems that could easily use scape's terrain and figures.
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Also if it was WotC's baby from the beginning, I think they just might have included and maybe preferred hex grids in the 4th edition D&D rules. That is just one step away from producing terrain only packs that are game system independent.

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  #27  
Old January 12th, 2013, 01:16 PM
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Re: Discussion: Why Did Heroscape Fail?

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1. Yep I thought the same. The game was incredibly daunting to get into and looked like a gimmick at first.

2. I completely disagree. Look at Transformers, Digimon, Pokemon and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles just to name a few. A successful cartoon would have taken away the fear that we talked about in point 1.

The cartoon could have been set up like this. Each episode, the heroes would continue further to their ultimate goal of defeating the enemy. Recall the Swarm of the Marrow story. Each episode could have been one scenario played out. At the end of every episode, Hasbro could have left a link on their website that showed Heroscapers how to build the map that they saw played out.

A cartoon could have slowly introduced each new Booster pack too just like how Hasbro did it with Transformers. Ever wonder why Optimus Prime died? Hasbro had new toys to sell of course!

Hasbro needed to revamp the wave system as well. Each wave should have had a similar theme and a stronger story behind it rather than just a bunch of random characters packaged together. You could have had the "Ninja Wave," "Orc Wave" etc.

It looks like Hasbro agreed that a cartoon was necessary which is why they made those computer animated episodes (that can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF6vr...ature=youtu.be)

Unfortunately, distributing it on the web is not the right way.

3. A video game would have been perfect. They could have done the Steam or PSN route and just released a small digital version selling for $10 with $10 Booster packs (called DLC in game terms or Downloadable Content).

If they wanted to make a full fledged game, they could have done some really cool stuff. Check this out:

A) Have you guys seen this cool game called Skylanders? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Skylande...5258&lp=1&cp=1

Basically they did what Heroscape should have done. You buy the starter pack that includes figurines. Then you buy booster packs to add to your main game. Sound familiar?

Find more about it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uDAf36hL6Q

Also, has anyone played Eye of Judgement for PS3? How cool would this had been if the map was Heroscape map and the game using the PS3 camera animated the battle onscreen?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob6HEuHuBkQ

So many ways they could have gone with a video game.
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  #28  
Old January 12th, 2013, 02:29 PM
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Re: Discussion: Why Did Heroscape Fail?

A Heroscape-themed Real Time Strategy game along the line of Age of Empires or Warcraft would have been the greatest thing ever.

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  #29  
Old January 12th, 2013, 02:46 PM
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Re: Discussion: Why Did Heroscape Fail?

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A Heroscape-themed Real Time Strategy game along the line of Age of Empires or Warcraft would have been the greatest thing ever.
Or an RPG-type game, where you decide which General you want to follow. Then you could fight in battles and such, playing anything from a 10th Reg to a Venoc. I think that'd be really fun.

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  #30  
Old January 12th, 2013, 02:51 PM
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Re: Discussion: Why Did Heroscape Fail?

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Originally Posted by Bloody Bogle View Post
A Heroscape-themed Real Time Strategy game along the line of Age of Empires or Warcraft would have been the greatest thing ever.
Exactly.

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  #31  
Old January 12th, 2013, 02:51 PM
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Re: Discussion: Why Did Heroscape Fail?

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Originally Posted by 'Scaper94 View Post
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Originally Posted by Bloody Bogle View Post
A Heroscape-themed Real Time Strategy game along the line of Age of Empires or Warcraft would have been the greatest thing ever.
Or an RPG-type game, where you decide which General you want to follow. Then you could fight in battles and such, playing anything from a 10th Reg to a Venoc. I think that'd be really fun.
This would solve the WoW problem brilliantly; the lines are drawn too clearly, you're either Horde or Alliance, there's no middle ground (well there is now, but I don't wanna be a panda).

But in scape, you can join one of SEVEN different factions. This would've been indescribably epic.
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  #32  
Old January 12th, 2013, 02:53 PM
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Re: Discussion: Why Did Heroscape Fail?

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Originally Posted by Porkachu View Post
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Originally Posted by 'Scaper94 View Post
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Originally Posted by Bloody Bogle View Post
A Heroscape-themed Real Time Strategy game along the line of Age of Empires or Warcraft would have been the greatest thing ever.
Or an RPG-type game, where you decide which General you want to follow. Then you could fight in battles and such, playing anything from a 10th Reg to a Venoc. I think that'd be really fun.
This would solve the WoW problem brilliantly; the lines are drawn too clearly, you're either Horde or Alliance, there's no middle ground (well there is now, but I don't wanna be a panda).

But in scape, you can join one of SEVEN different factions. This would've been indescribably epic.
But it is not like it has never been done before. There are loads of past RTS games that include multiple factions.

“Have you ever hoped for something? And held out for it against all the odds? Until everything you did was ridiculous? "
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  #33  
Old January 12th, 2013, 03:14 PM
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Re: Discussion: Why Did Heroscape Fail?

It occurs to me that I'm not sure I accept the assumption included in the title of the thread, namely that Heroscape failed. Now, I certainly understand what is meant by this phrase, that Heroscape as a product line eventually was dropped for a variety of reason.

Still, in a larger sense Heroscape didn't fail. I don't know that any real profit or sales numbers are available, but it seems that if RotV truly failed then that would have been the end of it. But 10 waves later, and a brief journey into the D&D world, Heroscape remains a much appreciated and highly valued game. It has been 8 years since the first Master Set and the game is still a favorite among fans. I forget where it placed this year but it remains high on Tom Vassal's top 100 games of all time, and obviously has a significant fan base here on this site.

So as a game Heroscape never failed. Maybe Hasbro failed, maybe WitCH failed, but Heroscape did not fail. In a sea of thousands of mediocre games it continues to sail proud and true. (cue dramatic music).

Just thought I'd throw that out there.
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  #34  
Old January 12th, 2013, 03:33 PM
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Re: Discussion: Why Did Heroscape Fail?

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Originally Posted by jbbnbsmith View Post
I forget where it placed this year but it remains high on Tom Vassal's top 100 games of all time, and obviously has a significant fan base here on this site.
He still ranks it super-duper high: number 3 (!) on his all-time-favorite list.

Link here to his 2012 video discussion of why he loves it so much. It's well worth watching: he congratulates this site and its custom designers for keeping the game alive, which is awesome.
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  #35  
Old January 12th, 2013, 03:36 PM
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Re: Discussion: Why Did Heroscape Fail?

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Originally Posted by ibechief View Post
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Originally Posted by Porkachu View Post
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Originally Posted by 'Scaper94 View Post
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Originally Posted by Bloody Bogle View Post
A Heroscape-themed Real Time Strategy game along the line of Age of Empires or Warcraft would have been the greatest thing ever.
Or an RPG-type game, where you decide which General you want to follow. Then you could fight in battles and such, playing anything from a 10th Reg to a Venoc. I think that'd be really fun.
This would solve the WoW problem brilliantly; the lines are drawn too clearly, you're either Horde or Alliance, there's no middle ground (well there is now, but I don't wanna be a panda).

But in scape, you can join one of SEVEN different factions. This would've been indescribably epic.
But it is not like it has never been done before. There are loads of past RTS games that include multiple factions.
Granted, but none with the insane flexibility that a scape MMO (or whatever) would offer. Even without multiple factions, the sheer number of available races and classes are saliva-inducing.
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  #36  
Old January 12th, 2013, 09:10 PM
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Re: Discussion: Why Did Heroscape Fail?

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Originally Posted by ibechief View Post
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody Bogle View Post
A Heroscape-themed Real Time Strategy game along the line of Age of Empires or Warcraft would have been the greatest thing ever.
Or an RPG-type game, where you decide which General you want to follow. Then you could fight in battles and such, playing anything from a 10th Reg to a Venoc. I think that'd be really fun.
This would solve the WoW problem brilliantly; the lines are drawn too clearly, you're either Horde or Alliance, there's no middle ground (well there is now, but I don't wanna be a panda).

But in scape, you can join one of SEVEN different factions. This would've been indescribably epic.
But it is not like it has never been done before. There are loads of past RTS games that include multiple factions.
Granted, but none with the insane flexibility that a scape MMO (or whatever) would offer. Even without multiple factions, the sheer number of available races and classes are saliva-inducing.
This makes a game terribly poor though when considering cost effectiveness of designing. It is far simpler to make more of one race than to completely redesign a new race with multiple units.

“Have you ever hoped for something? And held out for it against all the odds? Until everything you did was ridiculous? "
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