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  #109  
Old September 27th, 2020, 09:18 AM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

The after moving version is my preferred one was well.

Mixing normal and special attacks isn't a guarenteed no-no, and it will likely give the SA some more game-time.

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  #110  
Old October 13th, 2020, 01:06 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Coming back to Katryn, does 140 sound reasonable here? 2 attacks of 5 or an AoE + big attack hits turn has some handy uses for destroying large defense figures and little hordes of goblins or whatever.

Also, @Pumpkin_King can you update the OP?

Quote:
Katryn Vade, Emperor’s Chosen
Einar
Icarian / Unique Hero / Champion / Devoted / Medium 5

5 Life / 5 Move / 1 Range / 5 Attack / 3 Defense

140 points

DRAGONHEART BLADE SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
Choose a figure to attack. Any figures adjacent to the chosen figure are also affected by Dragonheart Blade Special Attack. Squad figures roll 1 less defense die against Dragonheart Blade Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Katryn Vade cannot be affected by her own Dragonheart Blade Special Attack.

OATHSWORN GUARDIAN
After attacking with Katryn Vade, if there is an adjacent friendly Unique Hero, she may attack one additional time with her normal attack.

ASPECT OF THE DRAGON
Whenever Katryn is chosen for a special power, you may treat her size as Huge instead of what is on this card.

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  #111  
Old October 13th, 2020, 08:28 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Okay, OP should be updated. Let me know if I missed anything.
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  #112  
Old October 18th, 2020, 12:27 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Just a thought that occurred to me: Katryn could make a pretty decent pair with Dienekes. He can Tether figures together for her Dragonheart Blade (though he'll be affected, too). While she's next to him his Combat Challenge protects her while he's also triggering Oathsworn Guardian. Pretty cool to have some light synergy like that in the Master Set.


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  #113  
Old October 18th, 2020, 09:59 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Just a thought that occurred to me: Katryn could make a pretty decent pair with Dienekes. He can Tether figures together for her Dragonheart Blade (though he'll be affected, too). While she's next to him his Combat Challenge protects her while he's also triggering Oathsworn Guardian. Pretty cool to have some light synergy like that in the Master Set.
Yep, its fun to see light synergy like this finding its way into the master set. I think its also worth noting that Katryn may also work as a decent counterdraft to Dienekes, as depending on how the wording for Aspect of the Dragon ends up being finalized it may allow her to ignore Tether of Logos.
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  #114  
Old October 23rd, 2020, 02:50 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Quote:
ASPECT OF THE DRAGON
Whenever Katryn is chosen for a special power, you may treat her size as Huge instead of what is on this card.
This really doesn't work from a rules perspective. Sometimes figures are clearly chosen for special powers, sometimes clearly not, sometimes not clearly either. Basically, there are no rules that define whether or not something is "chosen" when it comes to powers. It seems like something you want to work with a specific power; just make it work for that power.
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  #115  
Old October 23rd, 2020, 03:41 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
ASPECT OF THE DRAGON
Whenever Katryn is chosen for a special power, you may treat her size as Huge instead of what is on this card.
This really doesn't work from a rules perspective. Sometimes figures are clearly chosen for special powers, sometimes clearly not, sometimes not clearly either. Basically, there are no rules that define whether or not something is "chosen" when it comes to powers. It seems like something you want to work with a specific power; just make it work for that power.
Hmmm, I can see how as currently worded it could be a bit murky rules-wise. There's not a specific power that I had in mind when I came up with it. The goal was to make a defensive power that also tied in to her thematically channeling the spirit of a dragon. Also, within the context of the MS I like how it adds another "huge" figure besides Ozuul to interact with powers that care about a figure's size.

Do you think that there's a way to make something like this work, or does it truly need to be scrapped? Since its already a somewhat niche ability, ideally I would like for it to affect as many situations as possible, but I agree that the primary concern is nailing down wording that is rock-solid rules-wise, if that's even possible. Basically what I want to happen mechanically is for Katryn to be able to enjoy the immunities that come with being a huge figure without actually being huge. It's a pretty simple idea conceptually, but tricky to word in a way that's consistent with the rules. I think it would be a shame if it just didn't work mechanically; when I showed Katryn to @infectedsloth Aspect of the Dragon was one of his favorite parts of the design, and I think the MS meta would benefit from having two "huge" figures.
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  #116  
Old October 23rd, 2020, 03:56 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Hmm. This might, maybe work:
Quote:
ASPECT OF THE DRAGON
You may treat Nahiri's size as Huge for any special powers or glyphs.
It's still weird, though, and there may be problems I'm not able to come up with at the moment. I'll think on it.

At the very least, it causes potential odd interactions. For example, if another figure had the following:
Quote:
BEAST LORD
All adjacent friendly Huge figures roll and one dice when attacking or defending.
And then Nahiri was attacked by a figure with Giant Killer. Nahiri could choose to be Huge for Beast Lord, and Medium for Giant Killer, simultaneously. Alternatively, size could be something turned on/off, but the timing of the switch is difficult, enough so that things like "for the duration of an attack" just won't work.
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  #117  
Old October 23rd, 2020, 04:19 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Hmm. This might, maybe work:
Quote:
ASPECT OF THE DRAGON
You may treat Nahiri's size as Huge for any special powers or glyphs.
It's still weird, though, and there may be problems I'm not able to come up with at the moment. I'll think on it.

At the very least, it causes potential odd interactions. For example, if another figure had the following:
Quote:
BEAST LORD
All adjacent friendly Huge figures roll and one dice when attacking or defending.
And then Nahiri was attacked by a figure with Giant Killer. Nahiri could choose to be Huge for Beast Lord, and Medium for Giant Killer, simultaneously. Alternatively, size could be something turned on/off, but the timing of the switch is difficult, enough so that things like "for the duration of an attack" just won't work.
If that wording works, that would be my preferred version of the power. I do also think the on/off angle could be tenable as well. Would something like this work?

Quote:
Aspect of the Dragon
During any figure's turn, you may choose to treat Nahiri's size as Huge for any special powers or glyphs for the remainder of the turn.
By making it apply for the remainder of the turn, I think that would fix any weird edge cases where she's simultaneously Medium and Huge?
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  #118  
Old October 23rd, 2020, 04:24 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Quote:
Aspect of the Dragon
During any figure's turn, you may choose to treat Nahiri's size as Huge for any special powers or glyphs for the remainder of the turn.
By making it apply for the remainder of the turn, I think that would fix any weird edge cases where she's simultaneously Medium and Huge?
That has problems with start time, which is much more troublesome than end time. Could you say that Nahiri is Huge after Giant Killer doesn't work, then boost up to Huge for Beast Lord's defense bonus? It isn't clear. And that's just one simple example; I'm sure nastier ones exist. You could try to force the choice to be "at the start of any figure's turn," but then you have two problems: timing with other start-of-turn powers and having to remember to designate Nahiri's size at the start of every single turn of the game (lest an annoying opponent pulls the "you didn't say!" card in the middle of a turn).
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  #119  
Old October 23rd, 2020, 04:27 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

What if she's always considered huge?

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  #120  
Old October 23rd, 2020, 04:29 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Quote:
Aspect of the Dragon
During any figure's turn, you may choose to treat Nahiri's size as Huge for any special powers or glyphs for the remainder of the turn.
By making it apply for the remainder of the turn, I think that would fix any weird edge cases where she's simultaneously Medium and Huge?
That has problems with start time, which is much more troublesome than end time. Could you say that Nahiri is Huge after Giant Killer doesn't work, then boost up to Huge for Beast Lord's defense bonus? It isn't clear. And that's just one simple example; I'm sure nastier ones exist. You could try to force the choice to be "at the start of any figure's turn," but then you have two problems: timing with other start-of-turn powers and having to remember to designate Nahiri's size at the start of every single turn of the game (lest an annoying opponent pulls the "you didn't say!" card in the middle of a turn).
Yeah, I was trying to avoid "at the start of any figure's turn" precisely to avoid the memory issue. Here's my next stab at it:

Quote:
During any figure's turn, you may choose to treat Nahiri's size as Huge for any special powers on enemy army cards for the remainder of the turn.
I realize this doesn't completely solve the timing issues, but I think it would probably greatly reduce the number of edge-cases?
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