Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Marvel Legends HeroScape > Comic Hero Custom Creations
Comic Hero Custom Creations Any comic book customs and the discussions surrounding them


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #13  
Old August 29th, 2020, 09:13 PM
A3n's Avatar
A3n A3n is offline
"Let's Nut this Unit Out!"
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Australia - Queensland - Nth Rockhampton
Posts: 19,993
Images: 59
A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth
Re: Helmaverse League International

Love the edits. Changes have been made.

Now @Matt Helm , how do you normally calculate your initial point costs for designs? Do you have a calculator? Is it gut feel? Or some just pick a number & rely on the playtesting to bring it to the correct value?

My gut feelings at the moment would be about 150 for Blackfire & 180 for Starfire.

Also what would assist you guys for playtesting. I know I usually create the card, with or without the picture - depending if i already had it or not, then print out in low quality greyscale. But that could be just me. Let me know & I will make it happen.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old August 30th, 2020, 05:24 AM
streaky2007's Avatar
streaky2007 streaky2007 is offline
 
Join Date: April 5, 2009
Location: UK - Haverfordwest
Posts: 703
streaky2007 wears ripped pants of awesomeness streaky2007 wears ripped pants of awesomeness streaky2007 wears ripped pants of awesomeness streaky2007 wears ripped pants of awesomeness streaky2007 wears ripped pants of awesomeness streaky2007 wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: Helmaverse League International

Printing a basic b&w with no pic sounds good to me. As for points, I keep all the cards in points order, then start by comparing the base stats and work out where it fits, then adjust for how good the powers are. I’ll check the cards later and tell you my guess for points.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old August 30th, 2020, 02:05 PM
Matt Helm's Avatar
Matt Helm Matt Helm is offline
Captain Underpants
 
Join Date: January 30, 2009
Location: USA - NY - Long Island
Posts: 3,176
Images: 264
Blog Entries: 1
Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: Helmaverse League International

How I calculate initial point cost is basically a combination of gut and comparison as you guys both suggest.

First, I use the gut feeling utilizing only the original 10 Hasbro cards as a scale. Basically, which of the original cards is closest to the custom.

Then, like Streaky, I look at all of the HelmAverse cards in that cost range and eyeball where the new custom would fit in line.

After some playtesting at around that point, I tweak the points as warranted.

Last, when I settle on the point cost, I once again review the HelmAverse cards at that exact cost and ask myself, "how often would I draft this new card instead of one of the existing cards?" I do this because if the answer is "never", then the card is either overcosted or just too boring and may need to be scrapped.

More recently, I have been also utilizing this calculator offered by Giantslayer as a double check for my initial gut feeling. at the very least, it gives you a minimum for the base stats.

Without going through all of these steps, my initial gut would put Starfire at about 200 and Blackfire at 180. Totally just guesstimates at this time.

As for playtesting, I'm usually fine with a word doc that I print up with the stats color coded. I don't need a card mock up but I'll admit it's always fun to have one.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old September 7th, 2020, 12:38 AM
Matt Helm's Avatar
Matt Helm Matt Helm is offline
Captain Underpants
 
Join Date: January 30, 2009
Location: USA - NY - Long Island
Posts: 3,176
Images: 264
Blog Entries: 1
Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: Helmaverse League International

We were able to run Blackfire through a test today. The Starbolt Specisl Attack is deadly. Rolling at least 2 skulls more than half the time means you’re getting 4, 6 or 8 hits often. It immediately seemed a bit out of place and with a 7 range, the boys begged me to lower the attack dice to 3 on the special attack. Even though it was only available once per round, it just seemed to play better at 3 dice (with each skull counting as two).

She got taken out fast by lucky die rolls (she was seen as a threat) so unfortunately we didn’t get a full picture yet. We’ll keep playtesting and get you more feedback.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old September 7th, 2020, 01:41 AM
A3n's Avatar
A3n A3n is offline
"Let's Nut this Unit Out!"
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Australia - Queensland - Nth Rockhampton
Posts: 19,993
Images: 59
A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth
Re: Helmaverse League International

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
We were able to run Blackfire through a test today. The Starbolt Specisl Attack is deadly. Rolling at least 2 skulls more than half the time means you’re getting 4, 6 or 8 hits often. It immediately seemed a bit out of place and with a 7 range, the boys begged me to lower the attack dice to 3 on the special attack. Even though it was only available once per round, it just seemed to play better at 3 dice (with each skull counting as two).

She got taken out fast by lucky die rolls (she was seen as a threat) so unfortunately we didn’t get a full picture yet. We’ll keep playtesting and get you more feedback.
That sounds good. Down to 3 for Starbots.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old September 16th, 2020, 01:59 AM
A3n's Avatar
A3n A3n is offline
"Let's Nut this Unit Out!"
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Australia - Queensland - Nth Rockhampton
Posts: 19,993
Images: 59
A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth
Re: Helmaverse League International

B&W cards for playtesting:

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old September 25th, 2020, 10:52 PM
Matt Helm's Avatar
Matt Helm Matt Helm is offline
Captain Underpants
 
Join Date: January 30, 2009
Location: USA - NY - Long Island
Posts: 3,176
Images: 264
Blog Entries: 1
Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: Helmaverse League International

Starbolt Special Attack on Blackfire still shows as Attack of 4 instead of 3. And was the superstrength symbol intentional? Seems weird to be on one sister and not the other but we don't really know the character so we are betting that it does fit Blackfire.

Anyway, I'm hoping to get some mini, low point value tests in this weekend. I don't think we will have one of our big battles but that's OK, I want to give the -fire sisters some personal time.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old September 27th, 2020, 10:46 AM
A3n's Avatar
A3n A3n is offline
"Let's Nut this Unit Out!"
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Australia - Queensland - Nth Rockhampton
Posts: 19,993
Images: 59
A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth
Re: Helmaverse League International

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
Starbolt Special Attack on Blackfire still shows as Attack of 4 instead of 3. And was the superstrength symbol intentional? Seems weird to be on one sister and not the other but we don't really know the character so we are betting that it does fit Blackfire.

Anyway, I'm hoping to get some mini, low point value tests in this weekend. I don't think we will have one of our big battles but that's OK, I want to give the -fire sisters some personal time.
Hmm, I swear I changed that. & no Super strength wasn't supposed to be on her. I had SS on my original design but I always wavered if it was in fact appropriate & decided to leave it off this design.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old October 1st, 2020, 08:59 PM
Matt Helm's Avatar
Matt Helm Matt Helm is offline
Captain Underpants
 
Join Date: January 30, 2009
Location: USA - NY - Long Island
Posts: 3,176
Images: 264
Blog Entries: 1
Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: Helmaverse League International

Enjoyed a little testing last night and the preliminary reports are real good. Blackfire is still dangerous even with the Special attack at 3. It was very cool because now with height, I had to decide did I want to use the Special with 3 dice doubled or did I want to go with a normal attack of 5. Having those kind of choices is very fun to me because it adds to the strategy and the risk taking.

Starfire took some hits from her sister and didn't get much of test drive because Wolverine was in her face. She played great thus far but I really want to open her up on a map where she can fly and she has teammates holding wounds. More to report in the next few days when I can find some time.

Shh, don't tell anyone but we've also played around with Gh... Co... and De... (names hidden to protect the innocent). The first one is rounding out nice after a minor change while the latter two are finished off with just the point values being finalized.

The HelmAverse is getting close to growing yet again.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old October 3rd, 2020, 10:38 AM
A3n's Avatar
A3n A3n is offline
"Let's Nut this Unit Out!"
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Australia - Queensland - Nth Rockhampton
Posts: 19,993
Images: 59
A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth
Re: Helmaverse League International

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
It was very cool because now with height, I had to decide did I want to use the Special with 3 dice doubled or did I want to go with a normal attack of 5. Having those kind of choices is very fun to me because it adds to the strategy and the risk taking.
Yep that's what I like more of in the game also. It leads to great discussions afterwards when hind-sight is the only sight left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Helm View Post
Shh, don't tell anyone but we've also played around with Gh... Co... and De... (names hidden to protect the innocent). The first one is rounding out nice after a minor change while the latter two are finished off with just the point values being finalized.

The HelmAverse is getting close to growing yet again.
Excellent.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old October 7th, 2020, 07:53 PM
Matt Helm's Avatar
Matt Helm Matt Helm is offline
Captain Underpants
 
Join Date: January 30, 2009
Location: USA - NY - Long Island
Posts: 3,176
Images: 264
Blog Entries: 1
Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: Helmaverse League International

Got a little mini testing in with these guys a few times over the last few days. I do have a question on theme but literally just one simple question and nothing that is a deal breaker.

So both figures have the two projectile attack options. The first is the normal attack that has enhancement possibilities and the second is the Starbolts which are only usable once per round but pretty powerful as doubling skulls grows real fast.

When I look up on wiki or comic vine, I see that they have their starbolts as their common attack but can build up their energy for a super projection. My question is, does the Starbolts Special attack represent this build up (hence the once per round)? I think it does because it has the extended range and rolling 2 skulls on average with 3 skulls often enough means you are effectively dealing 4 or 6 skulls regularly. The regular attack is technically the weaker one but can get emotional enhancements.

Anyway, I guess my only confusion was in the name Starbolts which would better fit the commonly used attack and not the Special Attack. But then again HelmAverse powers do like to take the hero defining names and utilize them in powers where we can (i.e. Submariner, Power Man, Eye of Agamotto, Helm of Nabu,etc.).

The bottom line is, the Helm family is absolutely good with the naming of the powers as is and the theme is certainly good enough.

Now mechanically, they both are better than good enough. Playing with the tow of them side by side had me managing OMs to see if I could put them in position to get a good Starbolt SA and still maximize their normal attack bonus powers (later in the round). At least once, based on having height advantage that I wouldn't have later I chose to wait on the Starbolt and go with the normal attack first. In the end, it was fun to make those choices especially since they worked out as I had hoped. I think these two are ready to go with their stats and power set.

As far as points, I'd recommend a drop of 10 points for each of them.
Starfire = 190
Blackfire = 170

If you want them to be more powerful than that than we can talk about beefing the SA back up or some other factor but honest having Starfire on par with a 195 point Storm and 185 point Human Torch just seems very cool to me.

Excelsior!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old November 3rd, 2020, 08:36 AM
Matt Helm's Avatar
Matt Helm Matt Helm is offline
Captain Underpants
 
Join Date: January 30, 2009
Location: USA - NY - Long Island
Posts: 3,176
Images: 264
Blog Entries: 1
Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun Matt Helm is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: Helmaverse League International

Poke - any interest in finishing these two off?

Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Marvel Legends HeroScape > Comic Hero Custom Creations
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HelmAverse Supers - Reinforcements Arrive Matt Helm Comic Hero Custom Creations 3037 December 6th, 2020 08:53 PM
Custom Terrain for the HelmAverse and other Super-scapes Matt Helm Comic Hero Custom Creations 45 July 29th, 2020 12:20 PM
The HelmAverse SciFi HAVOKscape Custom Expansions Matt Helm Custom Units & Army Cards 260 February 16th, 2020 12:14 PM
Greasemonkey Scripts (Firefox Extension) thehandofzarquon Scapers Online 19 January 19th, 2007 10:17 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:03 PM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.