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  #1  
Old May 19th, 2020, 07:05 PM
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The Workbook of Legolas

Reserved for workbook

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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Old May 19th, 2020, 07:05 PM
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Re: The Workbook of Legolas

Reserved for tracking purposes

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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  #3  
Old May 19th, 2020, 07:06 PM
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Re: The Workbook of Legolas

Here was my first idea for Legolas; "v1"

NAME = LEGOLAS

UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = PRINCE
PERSONALITY = JOYFUL
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/5

LIFE = 4
MOVE = 7
RANGE = 5
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 180

COMPETITION
Add 1 to Legolas' Attack for each Order Marker on a friendly Dwarf Army Card, to a maximum of +3 Attack.

DEADLY WARRIOR
When attacking with Legolas, you may add 3 to his range or attack one additional time.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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Old May 19th, 2020, 07:07 PM
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Re: The Workbook of Legolas

And this was my second idea for Legolas; "v2"

NAME = LEGOLAS

UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = PRINCE
PERSONALITY = JOYFUL
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/5

LIFE = 4
MOVE = 6
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 1
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 110

MASTER ARCHER
When Legolas begins to attack, if he is unengaged he may either:
*Attack up to two additional times.
*Add 2 to his Range number and attack one additional time. Or,
*Add 4 to his Range number.
When Legolas begins to attack, if he is engaged, add 1 to his attack dice.

DWARVEN FRIENDSHIP
Add 1 to Legolas' attack for every Order Marker on any Unique Dwarf Army Card you control. If at least one Unique Dwarf Army Card is in your army and all Unique Dwarves you control have been destroyed, add 1 to Legolas' attack.

ELVEN LIGHTFEET
Slippery Ice and Heavy Snow only count as 1 space when moving. Legolas is never attacked when leaving engagement with a Squad figure.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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  #5  
Old May 19th, 2020, 07:21 PM
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Re: The Workbook of Legolas

And moving some of the follow-up conversation over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
To be honest I think I like the v1 versions much better than the v2 ones. I think the v2 ones are too complex. But they're worth considering depending on how the polls turn out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash View Post
Love Competition; "That still only counts as one!"
The V1 Legolas and Gimli as a whole I really like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
The Legolas and Gimli drafts look interesting. I prefer the version 1 designs, maybe adding the terrain ability to Legolas and Tough +1 to Gimli.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Perkins View Post
As for the fellowship, I don't think people would play the entire fellowship as an army all that often. I'm fine with making some fellowship members interconnected (like Legolas & Gimli) and others (like Boromir) more squad dependent. Then Boromir is like Alastair - best with knights but not useless without (just over priced in points).

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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  #6  
Old May 20th, 2020, 12:38 PM
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Re: The Workbook of Legolas

So my first thoughts for Legolas (and Gimli) would be something like this, riffing off of Capsocrates Competition idea, as I think that is a really fun and unique design space for these two.

Legolas Greenleaf
Unique Hero
Archer
Precise
(Scuplt dependent I guess)

Life 4
Move 6
Range 7
Attack 3
Defense 2

Competition
For every opposing figure Legolas destroys, place a Tally marker on this card. When attacking with Legolas, roll one additional attack die if another army card you control has more Tally markers than this card. After revealing an order marker on an army card that has at least 3 more Tally markers than this card, you may immediately take a turn with Legolas.
Double Attack
When attacking with Legolas, you may attack one additional time.
Defensive Agility
When Legolas rolls defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent figure, one shield will block all damage.

Stats are really just off the top of my head, and haven't added a point cost yet. I'm thinking somewhere in the 110-140 area.
Obviously both Gimli and Legolas would have the Competition ability. I figure it would, in most games, play out with Legolas taking the majority of the turns, well because range. Then as he's racking up the kills, you eventually 'unlock' a bonding ability, with extra attack, until Gimli levels the playing field. Depending on how you play it, if you're feeling lucky you could also try and alternate your order markers, if you get 2 kills each turn, the other unit will always get the extra attack during their turn. This would work best with lots of Common squad figures to mow down, which I think quite nicely reflects Gimli and Legolas.
It is quite a wordy ability, but I think it does enough that thats ok. And the fact that you could, theoretically, rack up some ridiculous numbers of Tally markers is definitely a feature, not a bug. For me at least! I'll crosspost this to the Gimli workbook with his Card.
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  #7  
Old May 20th, 2020, 12:45 PM
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Re: The Workbook of Legolas

This seems like a really fun angle to approach. I dont mind markers, I think they are thematic in this case. The question is probably, is he good enough without the Tally marker ability?

For instance, down the road. Will you be able to play him as a stand alone hero or as just a good ranged figure without drafting Gimli and creating a 200ish point requirement for him to function at his point value.
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  #8  
Old May 20th, 2020, 01:03 PM
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Re: The Workbook of Legolas

I know at least one other person ( @Chris Perkins maybe?) said they don't want to do markers. I think we should avoid markers when we can do something simpler. How about something like this:

COMPETITION
Add 1 to Legolas's attack for each Order Marker on a friendly Dwarf Army Card, to a maximum of +2 attack. After revealing an Order Marker and taking a turn with a Unique Dwarf Hero you control, if that Dwarf Hero destroyed at least one figure, you may take a turn with Legolas.

Another thought I have is to save these "competition" powers for the Two Towers versions of these cards.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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Old May 20th, 2020, 01:16 PM
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Re: The Workbook of Legolas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archie97 View Post
Competition
For every opposing figure Legolas destroys, place a Tally marker on this card. When attacking with Legolas, roll one additional attack die if another army card you control has more Tally markers than this card. After revealing an order marker on an army card that has at least 3 more Tally markers than this card, you may immediately take a turn with Legolas.
I think this needs some cleanup/adjustment. But I REALLY like the idea of counting kills with markers!

I like the one additional attack die. I'm not sure I like the bonding. I'd also like Legolas to be able to compete against Syvarris, or Krug, or Sgt. Drake.


Maybe:

Quote:
Competition

At the start of the game, choose one unique hero to be Legolas's Competition Partner. For every opposing figure Legolas destroys, place a Tally marker on this card. For every opposing figure Legolas's Competition Partner attacks, place a tally marker on that figure's card.

When attacking with Legolas or with Legolas's Competition Partner, roll one additional attack die if another army card you control has more Tally markers the attacking figure.
That is not a finished idea--right now there is no reason if Gimli and Legolas both have this power for them to choose each other--since they can still compete if they pick other people.


Let me think about it more.
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Old May 20th, 2020, 01:58 PM
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Re: The Workbook of Legolas

While I like the idea of the broader synergy, I am concerned it will be harder to balance and could bite us later. We'll need to consider all the angles. There is also the theme element to consider--they competed because they were friends, but there was also a racial element to it "I'll have no pointy-ear outscoring me!"

For now I'll brainstorm some more along the racial line and we can mix and match as necessary.

Riffing some more on this same theme
COMPETITION
Add 1 to Legolas's attack if there is at least one revealed Order Marker on a friendly Dwarf Army Card. After taking a turn with a Dwarf Army Card you control, if a figure from that Army Card destroyed an opponent's figure, you may move an unrevealed Order Marker from that card to this card.
So, not bonding, but you get the idea of them being motivated by each other's success and you get some nice flexibility in your Order Markers. Basically a really restrained idea (and therefore something we could apply to a pretty wide synergy net if we want).

To go along with the markers idea, here is several other spins
COMPETITION
When Legolas destroys an opponent's figure, add a tally marker to this card. After revealing an order marker and taking a turn with a figure you control that has two or more tally markers, you may remove two tally markers from that card to take a turn with Legolas.
COMPETITION
When Legolas destroys an opponent's figure, add a tally marker to this card. Add 1 to Legolas's attack [if there is at least one]/[for each] tally marker on any one friendly figure's army card.
If we want the tally markers to be more powerful (i.e. +1 attack for each) we should consider clearing them at the end of each round.

Side note, for scenario formats I'd like them to be co-op-able, using the shared Order Markers bag that was in one of the very last D&D scenarios to come out for Heroscape. Thus me wanting to have some synergy with friendly army cards (but sharing OMs between friendly cards is too hairy, so let's stay away from that).

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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Old May 20th, 2020, 03:52 PM
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Re: The Workbook of Legolas

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Another thought I have is to save these "competition" powers for the Two Towers versions of these cards.
Actually I think this is a good idea, for Fellowship figures they mostly haven't grown as a group yet, so their abilities could be more individualistic in the beginning. Maybe a species ability like Elven Lightfeet from earlier. I think it'll be cool to see these characters sort of parallel RotV Drake & Raelin moving into the more battle hardened SotM Drake & Raelin.
Also I was one who had mentioned avoiding markers, but a running Tally does sound pretty fun, so I'm neutral right now.
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Old May 20th, 2020, 04:07 PM
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Re: The Workbook of Legolas

I think that idea is growing on me a lot. Make these versions more "standalone," emphasizing synergy with existing 'Scape unit where appropriate. And then do "Two Towers" versions where they work together more. Many of the characters won't need yet another version for "Return of the King," but we will probably do one for Aragorn.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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