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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #37  
Old February 23rd, 2020, 07:53 PM
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Re: The Book of The Thing (Ben Grimm) (II) - Initial PT

Look at those eyes!
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Old February 24th, 2020, 09:07 PM
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Re: The Book of The Thing (Ben Grimm) (II) - Initial PT

Spoiler Alert!

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT (The Thing II)
Army Test 1
- Give a brief preview. Invaders from outer space have arrived! Venom will be shooting the transformed Megatron as often as he can, while the Invaders will engage and try to help Megatron intimidate the Earthlings. If he succeeds in removing an OM, he could take out The Thing’s X turn at the same time. Wanted to start out with 5 Unique Heroes so that 4 of a Kind might get multiple uses in before getting turned off, Two-Gun will be the one initially held in reserve. Everyone gets an Avengers Marker.
Map: Highway Avalanche Ambush (custom map, pile of snow in middle of road, cars scattered about)
Units: The Thing@330, Hawkeye III, Capt. America, Two-Gun Kid, Ant-Man (Hank), Fire Ants x4 (1000) vs. Arthrian Invaders x2, Megatron, Venom (1000)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: This game didn’t go well for the Avengers, I shouldn’t have used Megatron here as he was able to shut down Ben’s 4th turn power pretty easily. Beyond that, the Avengers lost the first two initiative rolls and the Fire Ants didn’t get a chance to move out and work as a screen. The Avengers cleaned out the Arthrian Invaders easily enough, but Megatron used that time to climb to the top of the snow pile where the Ants couldn’t engage with him very easily. Venom swung up there as well and Megatron quickly dispatched Cap & Hawkeye. Hawkeye couldn’t get more than 1 skull on his SA, which meant Venom would just keep using Megaron’s handgun SA. Not that Megatron needed it, he was rolling tons of skulls with his normal attack. Hank fell next. The Avengers did win initiative in R3, 4, & 5 though and were able to get Fire Ants engaged with Megatron & Venom to slow them down some, the Ants even landed a W on Venom. Two-Gun quit wasting time with the Invaders respawning in the SZ and flew up to the top of the snow pile to get HG on Megatron, while the Thing finally managed to engage as well and start trying to take down Venom. Megatrons dice cooled off and Thing’s strong def. came in handy, until he rolled just 1 shield and took 3W’s. In R6, Megatron’s intimidation campaign continued as he won initiative and knocked OM1 off Two-Gun. Thing eventually goes down to Megatron in R7, and Two-Gun immediately drops Megatron in response (Two-Gun dealt all 8W’s to him!), taking down OM2 & 3. Two-Gun starts clearing out the Invaders once more, until Venom engages and takes him down in R8.
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes, everything seems okay with the mechanics here, only thought I had was to maybe change 4 of a Kind to drop the revealed aspect of the OM restriction. That would have had no impact here, as OM’s are removed from the card by Megatron, but a different conversation about Temporal Defense got me thinking it might be nice if he still got to use the power when OM’s were still in play, just revealed out of order. Thoughts?
- What should be the unit's point value? This game just goes to show why you need to roll it out to the end, looked pretty hopeless for the Avengers after Cap & Hawkeye went down, but it ended up being a close competitive finish. Two-Gun was the MVP here, taking down Megatron with his pistols while his allies kept Megatron’s focus on them. So 330 could be a possibility, but since Ben didn’t really get to use many of his powers in this one I’ll continue to scale the tests up and see how he feels as we go along.
_____________________________________________________________
Army Test 2
- Give a brief preview. Kraven is in NY hunting Spider-Man once more, but Spidey is busy playing poker with his friends. So Kraven enlist the Wrecking Crew to crash the party, after they strike, he’ll try to bag Spidey in the confusion. While the theme there is great, tactically it makes more sense for Kraven to pick Wolverine as his prey, the double attack is better used on the healer that doesn’t dodge attacks and run away, plus the Nerve Punch can remove the X to limit Wolverines healing. For the poker party, Casey can bond with Ben (or Wolvie) when he gets in over his head. The party of 4 will start with one OM each, once they drop to 3, Wolverine will take the X.
Map: Highway Avalanche Ambush
Units: The Thing@340, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Casey Jones (1000) vs. Wrecking Crew, Kraven (1000)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: Well Casey got in over his head without ever even attacking anyone, Piledriver just rushed him and pounded him into the road, while Thunderball scores an early hit on Spidey for 2W’s. Thing takes Piledriver out by the end of R2, while Wrecker struggles to hit Spider-Man and Bulldozer charges Ben to no effect. Spidey web slings Wrecker but can’t hurt him, Wrecker smacks Spidey though and Spidey is in retreat mode soon after, Bulldozer & Thing go at it, Wolvie cuts Thunderball. In R4, Kraven joins the fight, bolo’s Wolvie, then scores 2W while removing the X from his card. Spidey web slings Kraven away and scores 2W as well, but can’t stop Wrecker & Thunderball from taking Wolverine down before he can try to heal. Wrecker keeps nailing Thing from HG with his crowbar, so Spidey goes after him, slings him down and finally scores a solid hit. Thing can’t hit Bulldozer though, his def. rolls have been fantastic. Wrecker takes out Spidey to start R6, but then can’t get a chain of turns going, Kraven fails his first bolo attempt and then misses Ben completely. Thing finally takes down Bulldozer. Wrecker & Thunderball drop 3 ranged att. on Thing but he survives. Thing opts to use his last double att. on Wrecker and engages on LG, then takes him out with the 2nd att.!! Kraven wins initiative in R7, bolos and then Nerve Punches Thing, who say’s “deal me in for one more hand” and punches Kraven in the face. Thunderball then finishes him off.
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes, no mechanical issues.
- What should be the unit's point value? Another fairly close loss here in the end, where the WC won initiative more often than not, and the fighters lost both Casey and Wolverine too quickly. 330-340 might be the right range as with some better luck his team might have pulled out a win here.
_____________________________________________________________
Army Test 3
- Give a brief preview. Testing the Fighter synergy here and sending them against the formidable Titans army. 5 heroes total, Moon Knight will hide on his ship while the other 4 make their move. Once one of them drops, Moon Knight will join the fight and keep the Four of a Kind power going a bit longer. Luke Cage will like having all the asphalt tiles on this map, so he’ll stay on the road while Spider-Girl uses Field Pulse to push Titans off the cars. I really want to try and see if I can shut down Titan's Go! with her power though, so if she can get adj. to Nightwing she will.
Map: Semi/Car/Truck Pile-Up (Snow pile removed from last map and replaced with vehicle DO’s that can be climbed on, but also attacked)
Units: The Thing@350, Luke Cage, Tigra, Moon Knight, Spider-Girl (1000) vs. Nightwing, Raven, Final Ruin Spell, Starfire, Changeling, Wonder Girl, Aqualad (1000)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: Well, this one started out so bad that I threw in the towel and restarted, Tigra couldn’t roll more than a couple of skulls on 25 att. dice, then Wonder Girl KO’s her with one punch. In the second game, with all the wrecked cars and melee fighters it quickly became a mosh pit and Spider-Girl wasn’t able to get adj. to Nightwing to try to shut down his Go! turn right away. Thing clobbers Changeling with a big hit early though, then Tigra manages to finish him and Aqualad both off before going down. Moon Knight had to drop out of the sky early, to try and stop Starfire from raining down hellfire, and scores a huge hit of 4W’s. Spider-Girl then drops in next to the middle of things and prevents Raven from taking a turn/transferring a wound, she also helps Ben & Luke take down Wonder Girl. Titans win initiative, but Spider-Girl prevents Nightwing from using his Go! power on OM1. Moon Knight tries to finish off Starfire, but can’t land his dart, Nightwing gets one in the face though while Luke punches Raven. Nightwing gets his Go! power working on OM2 and Starfire blasts Moon Knight, then turns her attention to Thing. Thing can’t take Starfire out either, Spider-Girl scores a W on Raven but she also transferred one to Thing. Down to just 3 of them, Luke gets all the OM’s, wins initiative, and Thing takes Starfire before she can go! Raven turns her attention to Spider-Girl, hits her for 3W, then plays Final Ruin to take her out! Nightwing drops the hammer on Thing for 3W, but he stays standing up somehow. Ben & Luke try to tag team a 2 life Raven, but Ben scores only 1 hit in 2 att., while Luke also gets blocked. Nightwing then takes out Ben when he whiffs on defense, Luke manages to finish off Raven though, and takes out OM3 in the process. After winning initiative, Luke moves away from any HG and forces Nightwing to come after him. They start to duke it out when Nightwing suddenly whiffs on def. to take 3W and go down!
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes, all of his powers got an extended run here and everything seems to work fine.
- What should be the unit's point value? I’m feeling 340 going forward, then we can adjust up or down after seeing more tests. After an early restart in this game, it ended up being a nail bitter and a win for Thing’s team. However, a lot of things went their way here (Spider-Girl was key for shutting down some turns, both Thing and Moon Knight had big attacks land of 4 & 5 W’s, and initiative was won at key moments) to just barely pull out a win, so 350 might be slightly high for him.

Last edited by Yodaking; February 25th, 2020 at 03:14 AM.
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  #39  
Old February 24th, 2020, 09:41 PM
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Re: The Book of The Thing (Ben Grimm) (II) - Initial PT

Looks good! Pre-yea

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  #40  
Old February 24th, 2020, 09:46 PM
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Re: The Book of The Thing (Ben Grimm) (II) - Initial PT

Solid tests YK. Pre-yea for 340
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  #41  
Old February 25th, 2020, 05:05 PM
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Re: The Book of The Thing (Ben Grimm) (II) - Initial PT

I think I've seen all the heroes post somewhere on the site since I posted the results, but no concerns/quesitons are being raised here, so lets move him on to public play testing.

I Propose The Thing II for Public Testing at 340 points.

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Last edited by Yodaking; February 26th, 2020 at 01:30 PM.
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  #42  
Old February 25th, 2020, 05:05 PM
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Re: The Book of The Thing (Ben Grimm) (II) - Initial PT

Oh, and any thoughts on the small tweak to 4 of a Kind idea I mentioned?
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  #43  
Old February 25th, 2020, 05:17 PM
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Re: The Book of The Thing (Ben Grimm) (II) - Initial PT

Is that the one you mention under the thoughts after your first test?

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  #44  
Old February 25th, 2020, 10:19 PM
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Re: The Book of The Thing (Ben Grimm) (II) - Initial PT

Yeah, first test results, mentioned idea about protecting the power from something like the Temporal Defense Spell. Such that revealing the OM's in a different order doesn't prevent the bonus 4th turn from happening, only an OM removal power would.
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Old February 25th, 2020, 11:13 PM
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Re: The Book of The Thing (Ben Grimm) (II) - Initial PT

Seems like something that would occur fairly rarely, so I'm okay either way.
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  #46  
Old February 25th, 2020, 11:39 PM
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Re: The Book of The Thing (Ben Grimm) (II) - Initial PT

I mean, why neuter a one-off spell?

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  #47  
Old February 26th, 2020, 12:36 AM
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Re: The Book of The Thing (Ben Grimm) (II) - Initial PT

It's a cheap common spell, and you'd only need to use it a few times before Thing runs out of teammates and the power shuts off on it's own. I was more thinking about future powers that worked in a similar way. Just wanted to what others thought about the idea, it's a pretty minor tweak either way.
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Old February 26th, 2020, 01:47 AM
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Re: The Book of The Thing (Ben Grimm) (II) - Initial PT

I feel like we’d be more likely to design powers that would end up letting you do cheatsy stuff with Thing in your army with that change than we would be to get more OM flip flop powers. Like the OM flip flop is basically pointless 80% of the time, and when it isn’t it’s just a ‘haha, screw you’ effect, I can’t imagine it would be a remotely common mechanic.

But I really don’t care either way.


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