The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

[Flash_19]

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

Great posts. I couldn't agree more. This is a ridiculously cheap source of Heroscape terrain (!!!) and repainted figures. I'm surprised it hasn't been adapted by C3V already.

My thoughts exactly.

[NecroBlade]

I'm totally on board with this, too! Not quoting the OP here because it's super long, but I'll respond to some other stuff.

Originally Posted by lefton4ya

Great minds do think alike! See New Heroscape Terrain "Quick-Sand" - Collaborate rules for specific discussion on what to do with "sand" tiles from the AotP sets.

While I agree "quicksand" would make more sense if they were "liquid" tiles like water/lava, I do like this opportunity to add a new terrain type to the game and quicksand does seem like a good option given the tiles. I'll have to poke around, because I'm fairly certain there was a solid quicksand design a while ago that a bunch of the community liked.

Originally Posted by lefton4ya

On poll Using Magic: AotP figures in Heroscape? the question "How do you feel about using Magic: AotP figures in Heroscape?" was answered overwhelmingly with:
Yes, but only if the Planeswalkers are rethemed as generic fantasy figures.

While other Magic minis have recently been added to the D&D line, I doubt we'll ever see enough to make it worth adding Magic planes to Heroscape. This seems much cooler as a new Heroscape Master Set without forcing the AotP theme to come along with it. And, it's what the community wants.

Originally Posted by lefton4ya

Battleball

I could get behind this as well (even though I'd have to buy another copy), but as a separate discussion from the AotP Master Set.

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

This is a ridiculously cheap source of Heroscape terrain (!!!)

The mats I couldn't care less about (outside of being a great way for new players to jump in), but quicksand and cryptoliths (finally, some new Destructible Objects!!) are very welcome additions.

Originally Posted by superfrog

We have already announced that we're using the Pummelroot Elementals as an alternate figure for one of our designs.

Slightly disappointing as that's one less potential design here, but honestly even for walking trees the solid green isn't too hot. Even without them, we should be able to use at minimum:

AotP:

• 5 Unique Heroes (Planeswalkers)
• 6 Unique Squads (fire hounds and phoenixes, shadow zombies, 2 different blue illusions/elementals, animated rhino statues)

SoI:

• 6 Unique Heroes (Planeswalkers, animated angel statue)

BfZ:

• 3 Unique Heroes (Planewalkers, giant alien)
• 1 Unique Squad (small aliens)

That's 21 units (14 heroes, 7 squads), with more if the shadow/animated themes are extended to other black/white figures.

Thanks for getting things started, @Astroking112 .

One concern I do have is how this project should be tackled. IMO, it's too large for the C3V to do exclusively internally (given that ideally the units flow from start to finish at about the same pace). Throwing this out there to get the conversation going, but I would like to see a community-driven project that breaks the above potential designs into a few smaller groups. Let the public vote on VC members and other high profile community members to lead each group. Then the groups publicly (i.e. the Heroscape community at large) tackle everything from design to playtesting, with the elected members mainly acting to keep the processes moving and step in when something breaks down.

[Dr.Phibes]

Has anybody researched how to buy the rights to Heroscape from Hasbro or who ever owns them at the moment? Then we can rely on the community to make some sort of Kickstarter like campaign to aquire said rights?

[Pumpkin_King]

That's a discussion we've had a lot - we should keep this t hread to a really great community project.

[Dr.Phibes]

Ah, got you. I was just saying it would be nice to see something done officially. Whatever happens, I would love.to see a expansion dome regardless. If I can help in any way then I will, I'm pretty dedicated to the game and always thinking of mechanics and new additions to the game.

[Pumpkin_King]

Short answer is: CVN is trying, but it's a longshot.

[All Your Pie]

I more or less agree with the sentiment of this, and from a scan of the other comments it seems I'm with the consensus in that. I think NB is right though in that this would be a tricky undertaking for the C3V design process--tricky, but not impossible. It's no secret that the internal design process is slow, and that this is a good thing for maintaining a high standard of quality and oversight. Is the speed of that process capable of maintaining enthusiasm for a master set during the development of an additional 20+ units on top of the C3V's current workload? For that matter, will the AotP sets still be highly available by the time that it's done?

My tentative and underinformed suggestion is that at the very least, C3V would need to invite in some additional design leads in order to handle the workload. I personally think it would be a good thing for some of those designs to be run with public input, but I am aware that runs highly counter to the C3V's design method. Basically, my overall point here is that I think it would be a misstep for the C3V to rely on its current processes if it wanted to produce a master set. This is not because those processes are necessarily flawed, but they simply aren't suited to this goal if they are proceeded with unaltered.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

AotP:

• 5 Unique Heroes (Planeswalkers)
• 6 Unique Squads (fire hounds and phoenixes, shadow zombies, 2 different blue illusions/elementals, animated rhino statues)

SoI:

• 6 Unique Heroes (Planeswalkers, animated angel statue)

BfZ:

• 3 Unique Heroes (Planewalkers, giant alien)
• 1 Unique Squad (small aliens)

That's 21 units (14 heroes, 7 squads), with more if the shadow/animated themes are extended to other black/white figures.

If I remember things correctly, SoI included another translucent blue squad with the two Lantern Gheists. There were also robed plain black figures, for another potential shadow squad design. I'd have to take a look at all of the units to remember what else there is, though.

Originally Posted by All Your Pie

My tentative and underinformed suggestion is that at the very least, C3V would need to invite in some additional design leads in order to handle the workload. I personally think it would be a good thing for some of those designs to be run with public input, but I am aware that runs highly counter to the C3V's design method. Basically, my overall point here is that I think it would be a misstep for the C3V to rely on its current processes if it wanted to produce a master set. This is not because those processes are necessarily flawed, but they simply aren't suited to this goal if they are proceeded with unaltered.

I completely agree with both this and NB's similar points. Because of C3V's nature, it would be tough to finish a Master Set for a simultaneous release while keeping the current community engaged with new units. Public playtesting (especially with more involvement) can help address this, but I'm not aware of enough details on the internal pipeline to know if that would be the best course of action here.

The more people involved in creating a Master Set, the more realistic the goal will be. I believe that phrasing it as a VC Master Set rather than solely a C3V one is a viable direction here, since it would require a lot more than the normal small expansions to make it happen. I do think that figuring this out is entirely worth the effort, though, and will have great benefits.

[Dad_Scaper]

I would quibble with a few of your points, AK. I don't, for instance, agree that we struggle to find minis. There are far more quality painted minis out there, in the correct aesthetic, than we can use. I certainly don't think we are so desperate for figures that we need unpainted minis. Least of all, fantasy unpainted minis.

But some of your points are well-taken. I agree it would be wonderful to have a sort of a C3V starter set, as you say, to help people interested in dipping their toes into the water. And the cardboard terrain might be an interesting way for people to start playing, even if we never find it's acceptable in a competitive setting.

We have, of course, identified boxes of minis before. A couple of boxes of Confrontation minis; the Blood of Gruumsh box. Those minis, though, as you correctly point out, are not already based.

I'm not sure what to do with this food for thought. The case in favor is not so great as you make it out to be, but it is also not so weak as it might appear.

Thank you again.

[Pumpkin_King]

From a scan of the threads and the discord, the view for might have more proponents than the view against.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

From a scan of the threads and the discord, the view for might have more proponents than the view against.

If that's a response to me, I wasn't counting noses when I said I am weighing the positions. I think the reasons in favor of running with this proposal are, no disrespect intended, somewhat exaggerated. There is merit nonetheless. That is what I meant.

[superfrog]

The biggest obstacle for me is that so much of this is unpainted.

I'd love to use the painted stuff and the transparent stuff, and the terrain, and the cryptoliths, but I don't think unpainted is going to fly with VC. That's a line I'd prefer to keep drawn in the sand.

That doesn't necessarily rule out a Master Set (or maybe we could call it a Game Set like Marvel was), but it does temper the "70 figures" claim that Astro is making. I count 12 painted figures and 12 translucent figures.