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HeroScape General Discussion General discussions of packaging, terrain, components, etc. If it doesn't fit in any other official category, put it here.


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  #1  
Old April 1st, 2010, 02:46 PM
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Why Uncommon Squads will save Heroscape

I do not really think that Heroscape needs to be saved, per se, but I think that uncommon squads would help increase sales. This is good for the three main parties involved with Heroscape: WotC, the distributors (local game stores, Wal-Mart, Target, etc.), and us, the gamers.

The problem right now with the way things are set up, at least one pack out of each wave will be purchased less than the other 3 (because it contains uniques). A prime example of this is the Nakita Agents - they sat on the shelves forever, while all the other packs were gone. This means that WotC makes less money, stores have dead product on their shelves, and we don't get more Heroscape (the stores don't reorder because they still have product - not realizing that all packs are not created equal).

With the advent of uncommon heroes, there has been a lot of discussion about uncommon squads (http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=29599). I joined in the discussion entitled 'What if common squads were more uncommon?' This was an interesting topic, and it really got me thinking about the issue. The more I thought about it, the more excited I got at what it could do to help the game.

For my purposes, I think that an uncommon squad would operate just like uncommon heroes do - exactly like uniques, except that you can take more than one in an army.

This may seem like an order marker nightmare, but it would not be. First, we have unique squads in the game which lose value whenever one unit dies. These unique squads are still good enough though to be worth taking just one squad of. What uncommons would do would be to open the door to bring more, if you wanted. What is the difference in order marker placement if you take a unique squad and a hero, or two uncommon squads, or two unique squads, or two different common squads. You still have two choices any way you go. Also, if there were uncommon squads, you would not have to play more than one at a time.

I think that uncommon squads will take the place of unique squads, for the most part, though there are certainly squads which are too good to even put at uncommon.

So, if there were uncommon squads and heroes in waves instead of uniques, the entire wave would be purchased with more regularity - there would be less useless product.

Where would uniques go? They could release uniques in packaging like the large hero packs. On package of uniques could have 12-15 figures. If one of those and two waves (with commons and uncommons) were released each year, I think that WotC would get more sales, stores wouldn't have dead product, and we would see more figures per year.

To get an idea of how an uncommon squad would play, I list below all the unique squads in the game (and one common squad) and how I think they would be released if uncommons were part of the game from the beginning (this is what I posted in the other thread about the topic):

I honestly think that the Ninjas, the Izumi and Tagawa Samurai, the Tarn Viking Warriors, the Zettian Guards, Elite Onyx Vipers, and Rechets of Bogdan could be made uncommon without breaking anything.

The Nakita Agents and Kozuke Samurai could be made uncommon if they cost about 10-20 points more than they do now.

The Airborne Elite I am unsure about at this time.

The Krav Maga and the Marro Warriors should not be made uncommon, unless there was a pretty steep increase in point cost (I would not want to run into KMA 4x, MW 2x).

The Deathreavers are the only common squad that I think would benefit the game by being made uncommon. The rat screen would be slightly inhibited, as the player would have to be more careful about order marker management, but since they are not used for attacking this would not break them as a squad.

I think that it is easy to see that uncommon squads would be just like uniques in terms of gameplay (you could take one and it is okay), but with the added benefit of taking more if you want. Would marker management be more difficult? Yes, but by that line of thinking we should all build armies consisting of just one common squad. For those who think uncommon squads would be a hassle, this change would not negatively affect you - you could run 1 squad and not lose value. For those of us who think it would not be a big deal to sticker up 2 or 3 squads and keep track of them, it would add value to the game. Army building would have more grey, which adds to the fun.

So, uncommon squads would benefit the three major parties concerned with Heroscape - WotC, stores, and us. I hope that we see them soon. (Feel free to disagree. This topic is one that interests me greatly, and I will enjoy your responses, whether positive or negative.)
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  #2  
Old April 1st, 2010, 05:20 PM
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Re: Why Uncommon Squads will save Heroscape

I'm not sold on the idea of uncommon squads. But the idea of releasing only common squads and uncommon heroes in a wave, with uniques in a separate big box release sound very good to me.
I believe the current way things are released is to assure that Heroscape will not drown in commons alone. But maybe WotC should rethink the strategy and try some other kind of release.
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  #3  
Old April 1st, 2010, 05:32 PM
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Re: Why Uncommon Squads will save Heroscape

The thing I don't like is how many stickers you would need for that.
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  #4  
Old April 1st, 2010, 05:38 PM
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Re: Why Uncommon Squads will save Heroscape

Uncommon Airborne Elite would be awesome, and wouldn't break the game at all. You just roll once for each squad. Also, you could make this army:

The Invisible Army!
AIRBORNE ELITEx2-220
RECHETS OF BODGANx3-370
ISKRA ESENWEIN-420
CONCAN THE KYRIE WARRIOR-500

Just imagine having to fight this. You have killed Concan and are about to give the killing shot to Iskra.

Your opponent drops 2 squads of AE.

Iskra survives, and summons a squad of Rechets in her next turn.

You get crushed.

I want to do that sooooo bad.

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  #5  
Old April 1st, 2010, 05:48 PM
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Re: Why Uncommon Squads will save Heroscape

I kinds like the idea of the large pack of Uniques and a series of "3" common/uncommon packs, to keep the amounts easier to move through stores. What I don't like is uncommon squads, I don't even like uncommon heroes, it just over complicates a wonderfully simple game and it was completely unneeded IMO.

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  #6  
Old April 1st, 2010, 05:51 PM
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Re: Why Uncommon Squads will save Heroscape

So what your saying here is that unique squads become uncommon?

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  #7  
Old April 1st, 2010, 05:59 PM
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Re: Why Uncommon Squads will save Heroscape

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Cat View Post
Uncommon Airborne Elite would be awesome, and wouldn't break the game at all. You just roll once for each squad. Also, you could make this army:
Would you roll for the drop for each card?
Considering what the AE are capable of, they need to be unique. I think the other unites you mentioned could work well. The Zettians especially. I would like to try this out.

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  #8  
Old April 1st, 2010, 06:14 PM
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Re: Why Uncommon Squads will save Heroscape

@ Krizo - I realize that all uniques should not be made uncommon. In fact, I don't want to change any of the current units. I am saying that if we look at our current units, many could function as uncommons (the Zettian Guards may actually see play, etc). In my post, I too wrote that I would not want to see multiple KMA.

@ Wookie - Yes, the AE would have to roll for each if they were uncommon.


I think that uncommon squads would not necessarily be used that much and would not over complicate the game. Yes, maybe someone would run 5x Ninjas (if they were uncomomon). But what I really think would happen would be someone trying to put together a samurai army and taking:

Kaemon - 120
2x Izumi - 240
2x Tagawa - 480

That wouldn't win tournaments probably, but it would be a fun option to make a samurai army. Even 4x Tagawa would not be ridiculous. The thing about running so many uniques/'uncommons' is order marker management and the decreasing strength of each squad as members die. I really think that uncommon squads would add some more flavor to army building. There are some squads that are too powerful to be anything but unique though.
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Old April 1st, 2010, 06:34 PM
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Re: Why Uncommon Squads will save Heroscape

I think this could be a good idea. The past has been of WOT/Hasbro releasing a wave of 2-3 packs of [un]commons and 1-2 packs of uniques, of which one of three things happens:
  • Not so smart retailers price them the same and are stuck with a bunch of uniques that they later put on clearance.
  • Smarter retailers charge 25% more to 2x as much for commons to try and sell an even amount to consumers by pricing based on supply and demand economics (I would not call this price gouging unless they hold units to sell later once supply is lower).
  • Discounts are given for purchasing entire waves equaling only slightly more than the commons packs only so people buy multiples of waves and are stuck with extra unopened uniques that they try to pawn off on the trade post, ebay, "friends", or tournaments as "prizes".
Having the what would be a unique pack instead be uncommon heroes and squads mixed in with the commons makes it easier for retailers to price each pack the same and not get stuck with extra packs either on the retailer or consumer end.

Basically what WOTC/Hasbro needs to do is find some way to stop producing the same amount of unique packs as commons when the demand is 2-3 times as much. Ideas for selling uniques seporately include:
  • The idea suggested of 10-15 mostly medium figure pack of uniques in a in Large expansion pack
  • Include smaller heroes with larger heroes in large expansion packs.
  • Pack of 5-6 Uniques with extra hexes (24-48 hexes) other terrain or mixed in kinda like past terrain expansion packs, but with uniques instead of commons (although this might slow people from getting multiple terrain packs).
  • More smaller master sets more frequently, although this is similar to the above option except master sets normally also come with order makers, dice, glyphs, and wound markers which there is even less of a demand for.

Of the above I would go for the second option of just having large figure expansions with small, medium, large, and huge figures. This would be the least difficult to change from status quo on a production/distribution level, but satisfies a need of having small-medium unique heroes to expand classic (& D&D) scape themes and synergies. If others have more ideas, please let us know. Either way, less unique packs on the shelves and unopened in homes would be a good thing and "will save Heroscape".

Last edited by lefton4ya; April 1st, 2010 at 06:40 PM.
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  #10  
Old April 1st, 2010, 06:46 PM
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Re: Why Uncommon Squads will save Heroscape

I wouldn't mind a 4 pack wave with common and uncommons then a hero pack that has like 12 heroes.

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  #11  
Old April 1st, 2010, 07:06 PM
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Re: Why Uncommon Squads will save Heroscape

Quote:
Originally Posted by GatekeeperDatuck View Post
@ Krizo - I realize that all uniques should not be made uncommon. In fact, I don't want to change any of the current units. I am saying that if we look at our current units, many could function as uncommons (the Zettian Guards may actually see play, etc). In my post, I too wrote that I would not want to see multiple KMA.

@ Wookie - Yes, the AE would have to roll for each if they were uncommon.


I think that uncommon squads would not necessarily be used that much and would not over complicate the game. Yes, maybe someone would run 5x Ninjas (if they were uncomomon). But what I really think would happen would be someone trying to put together a samurai army and taking:

Kaemon - 120
2x Izumi - 240
2x Tagawa - 480

That wouldn't win tournaments probably, but it would be a fun option to make a samurai army. Even 4x Tagawa would not be ridiculous. The thing about running so many uniques/'uncommons' is order marker management and the decreasing strength of each squad as members die. I really think that uncommon squads would add some more flavor to army building. There are some squads that are too powerful to be anything but unique though.
Sorry, I just got the basics out of your post and went with it.

But a good idea to make more RotV uniques lose dust.

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  #12  
Old April 1st, 2010, 07:28 PM
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Re: Why Uncommon Squads will save Heroscape

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krizo View Post

But a good idea to make more RotV uniques lose dust.
Like the Krav, Raelin, The Airborne Elite, and the Marro Warriors?
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