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  #25  
Old July 31st, 2007, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hi1hi1hi1hi1
I say yes. The original owner gets to put the Viking on whatever card he/she wants to.

Looking at either card there seems to be no clear answer to either question. More opinions on these two (look below) would be helpful:

1-If Dr. Doom successfully rolls Mind Exchange 17 on Kee-Mo-Shi or Ne-Gok-Sa, then that figure successfully rolls Mind Shackle 19/20 on another figure, who gets control of the figure? The Ne-Gok-Sa/Kee-Mo-Shi player because it is their ability, or the Dr. Doom player because he took the turn with Kee-Mo-Shi?

2-If Dr. Doom successfully rolls Mind Exchange 17 on a Viking Hero (Thorgrim, Eldgrim, Finn) and the Hero is destroyed on the Mind Exchange turn, who chooses where the spirit goes? The Viking player because it is their ability, or the Dr. Doom player since he was controlling the Viking when he died?
I think the answer to both of those questions is the player controlling the figure at the time the power activated. So if your opponent Mind-Exchanges your Ne-Gok-Sa with Doctor Doom and then uses Ne-Gok-Sa to Mind-Shackle your Jotun, Jotun is his, tough luck for you.
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  #26  
Old July 31st, 2007, 10:49 PM
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I don't think Mindshackle needs answering by Hasbro. It seems clear-cut to me. Mindshackle delivers control of the card to a player, not to a figure.

The spirits... less clear-cut. Now that I think about it, let's suppose that I have Finn and you have Hulk. I have no order markers on Finn. Hulk smashes Finn and kills him. I don't have to take a turn with Finn (or any of my own figures, in fact) to place that spirit on another one of my cards. So from that, it could be argued that the placement of the warrior spirit happens independent of the turn structure-- it's not really part of Finn's turn or anybody else's turn-- and that taking a turn with the figure is not enough to gain control of the spirit. Now there's one to submit. It's just not apparent from the cards.
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  #27  
Old August 1st, 2007, 03:30 AM
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It seems pretty clear to me that whoever controls a card gets the benefit of the abilities. If you mindshackle someone with KMS while you control her with doom you get the figure. If you manage to off finn while you control him, you get the benefit of the warrior spirit.

Thats the most straight forward way to explain it imo. Anything else would require individual clarifications for every situation. This way you simply take the card you've mind control'd and use it just as if you had drafted it until your control is up.
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  #28  
Old August 1st, 2007, 11:02 AM
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The Warrior Spirit question is a good one and one which seems to be worth submitting. Having said that, I think the Warrior spirit goes to the controlling player until the end of Dr. Doom's turn when control goes back to the original owner. For all practical purposes I think this means that the original owner gets the Spirit. So to be clear:

A) I think anyone you mindshackle with a temporarily controlled card you get to keep, just as you keep any other benefit you accrue from the temporary use of a unit's powers.

B) I think that the Warrior Spirit of a card that is temporarily controlled goes to the temporary controller until the loss of that temporary control at which point it reverts to the original owner just as all the other permanent benefits of the card revert to the owner.

~Aldin, parsing finely

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or his desserts are small
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  #29  
Old August 1st, 2007, 12:18 PM
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Swap in Doctor Doom for Red Skull and I agree with you completely, Aldin. But I think that the Viking Spirit one could go either way with Hasbro, as, like Aldin implies, it requires pretty fine parsing.

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  #30  
Old August 1st, 2007, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman
Swap in Doctor Doom for Red Skull and...
Doh!

~Aldin, if I could turn back time...

He either fears his fate too much
or his desserts are small
That dares not put it to the touch
to gain or lose it all
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  #31  
Old August 1st, 2007, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin
goes to the temporary controller until the loss of that temporary control at which point it reverts to the original owner just as all the other permanent benefits of the card revert to the owner.

~Aldin, parsing finely
But isn't Mindshackling a permanent benefit? I would say that the figure is connect to Kee-Mo-Shi's mind, not Doom, but that is pure flavor. I can see Hasbro saying that Doom gets control of the figure, though I can see Kee-Mo-Shi getting control of the firgure as well.

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  #32  
Old August 1st, 2007, 12:54 PM
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My thought is that Mindshackling happens during Doom's turn with KMS, whereas the placing of the Viking Spirits happens after the Viking Spirits are dead (and, according to my thinking, their turns and thus Doom's control have ended).

edit: and as far as flavor concerns, I see where you're coming from, but if it were truly about the link between the two minds, you could just kill KMS and your mind shackled figures would be returned to you. But that's not the case - once control is turned over with mind shackling, it's permanent, whether or not the figure that did the mind shackling remains alive (or, one could speculate, under your control).

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #33  
Old August 1st, 2007, 01:23 PM
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hi1x4,

Look at it this way - say I have NGS and you have KMS. I mindshackle your Sgt. Drake then you mindshackle my NGS. Do you get Sgt. Drake? I see why that might be nice flavor, but I feel confident that per the rules I would keep Drake.

~Aldin, waiting with bated breath for the first time anyone actually uses Dr. Doom to control Finn and have him throw himself off a cliff or into the lava

He either fears his fate too much
or his desserts are small
That dares not put it to the touch
to gain or lose it all
~James Graham
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  #34  
Old August 1st, 2007, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin
hi1x4,

Look at it this way - say I have NGS and you have KMS. I mindshackle your Sgt. Drake then you mindshackle my NGS. Do you get Sgt. Drake? I see why that might be nice flavor, but I feel confident that per the rules I would keep Drake.

~Aldin, waiting with bated breath for the first time anyone actually uses Dr. Doom to control Finn and have him throw himself off a cliff or into the lava
Ah thanks Aldin that makes a lot more sense. And Batman too for pointing out the thing about dying and retaining control. Thanks guys.

Now for the Viking one have we reached a consensus?

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  #35  
Old August 1st, 2007, 01:31 PM
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I'm leaning toward the original owner keeps the spirits, but I could honestly see merit on either side.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #36  
Old August 1st, 2007, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman
I'm leaning toward the original owner keeps the spirits, but I could honestly see merit on either side.
I say the original controller gets the spirit as well, but I was convinced otherwise with Mindshackling, sowho knows.

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