Marvel Wave 1 Predicted Costs

[NFCfan]

anyone have any predicted values for them now that a baseline has been set with marvelscape? Here is what I imagine

Super Skrull 300
Thing 220
Torch 200
Invisible Woman 190
Beast 180
Bullseye 165
Sandman 160
Doc Oc 160
Punisher 150
Black Panther 150

[ProSpecT]

Most of those seem reasonable. I doubt the Thing will be that low though.

I'd put him at 300-350 range according to powers.

[NFCfan]

the main problem with thing costing that much for me is the existence of Super Skrull. Super Skrull should be a good bit more powerful than Thing and Super Skrull isn't in the same power class as Thanos who is 360

[jcb231]

I posted in the other thread, but I'll do a quick list here of my guesses.

Super Skrull 310-340
Thing 290-320
Human Torch 210-240
Invisible Woman 180-200
Beast 180-200
Bullseye 120-150
Sandman 150-175
Doctor Octopus 140-160
Punisher 120-150
Black Panther 175-200

[oni]

I don't know Marvel as well as DC.

I want to see the guesses on the Specials too.

[jcb231]

Originally Posted by oni

I don't know Marvel as well as DC.

I want to see the guesses on the Specials too.

You could get a quick idea of the powers and abilities of these characters by checking out the various Marvel encyclopedias online, or by watching some of the Marvel movies. With the exception of Black Panther and Super-Skrull, all of these figures have appeared in at least one Marvel live action film.

[oni]

Oh, sure I could do that. But I'm more interested in seeing what the people here think they'll get and what they want to see. I could care less about the comic book character, I want to see how someone is going to power up The Thing. Tough Skin with d20 to shrug off wounds? Bash for an extra Skull? We can't give them everything, it's all about the choices.

[rdhight]

Originally Posted by oni

Oh, sure I could do that. But I'm more interested in seeing what the people here think they'll get and what they want to see. I could care less about the comic book character, I want to see how someone is going to power up The Thing. Tough Skin with d20 to shrug off wounds? Bash for an extra Skull? We can't give them everything, it's all about the choices.

I see them in three loose families.

Thing, Torch, Invisible Woman, Super Skrull: Fantastic Four content. The whole concept of the Super Skrull, to me, demands that he's the most powerful of these four. He doesn't need to cost as much as all three others put together (and certainly not all Four put together!) but he needs to be able to thump any one of them almost by definition. I see the Thing as contributing some kind of Tough or other defense boost, the Torch as contributing flying and maybe range, and Sue as contributing some kind of evasion (perhaps an elegant all-gray hitzone). I hope that Johnny has some kind of water weakness, maybe having his flying or other powers shut down on a turn he starts in water.

The big unknowns here are Reed Richards and F4 teamwork. The designers have never touched size-shifting at all, so we don't know how they plan to represent that in Reed or Super Skrull. And there's no indication of whether the original Four will be hardwired to work together. My preference would be for Sue and Reed to have a hardwired relationship, but Thing and Torch to be more interchangable, which is exactly how the vampire family works. Another option would be to have a Reed/Sue link and a Sue/Johnny link, leaving the Thing as the uncomfortable one.

A secondary question is whether Sue will use her forcefields as the Four's heavy artillery. This could inflate her attack power to Jotun-like levels, presumably driving up the Skrull even more in the process.

Sandman, Doc Ock: the Spider-Man villains. Obviously, I hope the prices here don't stray too far from the web-slingers. If anything, I'd like to see them come in cheaper and weaker than Spider-Man, so that he can fight multiple villains at once. In a way, Spider-Man enemies have a tough standard to meet, because Cyprien and Sonlen are pretty cool figures for him to fight already. Heroscape tends to represent technological figures with high defense and low life, both in Marvel and classic, so I would expect Doc Ock to lean that way as well as an ordinary man protected by machines. I'm guessing that for contrast's and flavor's sake, Sandman will probably not care very much when he gets wounded, although whether because of healing, damage reduction, a Krug-style bonus, or just a high life total, I have no idea.

One question is whether Marvel will use some kind of special power or other mechanical device to represent genius intellect and scientific skill. I think being a scientist is a big enough part of enough different characters that they should give some thought to representing it, but I'm not sure how. Maybe it shouldn't be a power, but a class that others can then reference? Or maybe different on every card? But anyway, it would be very appropriate if Dr. Octopus came across as being smarter than the Sandman. I hope they can incorporate that somehow.

Beast, Bullseye, Punisher, Black Panther: everyone else, and overwhelming the ones I'm looking forward to the most. My preference would be to see the Black Panther as the strongest of these four by a large margin-- hopefully the second strongest in the set. I'm comfortable with Beast, Bullseye, and Punisher being pretty cheap for Marvel, maybe one or more as low as 110. I think they can do their thing without being awesomely powerful, although Beast will presumably start off unimpressive and then get some kind of neat mutant synergies to pump him up later.

[jcb231]

Originally Posted by oni

Oh, sure I could do that. But I'm more interested in seeing what the people here think they'll get and what they want to see. I could care less about the comic book character, I want to see how someone is going to power up The Thing. Tough Skin with d20 to shrug off wounds? Bash for an extra Skull? We can't give them everything, it's all about the choices.

Oh okay. Based on your first post I thought you just didn't know anything about the characters.

[jcb231]

I would like to see intellect represented in some way, but I think one might also take the approach that once the two figures are within hitting distance, being a super-genius isn't as important as it is during the pre-battle planning stages. When Spider-Man is punching Doc Ock, it doesn't really matter much that Ock is a genius, ya know? Probably the only Heroscape-related use for intellect would be to boost other figures, or coordinate in a Red Skull or Ornak or Kato Katsuro type manner.

[rdhight]

Originally Posted by jcb231

I would like to see intellect represented in some way, but I think one might also take the approach that once the two figures are within hitting distance, being a super-genius isn't as important as it is during the pre-battle planning stages. When Spider-Man is punching Doc Ock, it doesn't really matter much that Ock is a genius, ya know? Probably the only Heroscape-related use for intellect would be to boost other figures, or coordinate in a Red Skull or Ornak or Kato Katsuro type manner.

There's definitely an argument to be made there. And like you say, activating other figures is a definite possibility, especially since Red Skull and Doom both do it and they're smart. Still, some other ways would be:

--Bonuses to initiative.
--Other d20 bonuses to friendly robots, troops, or vehicles.
--Some way to interact with glyphs. Peeking at face-down glyphs, not having to stop on glyphs, something like that.
--Some kind of deployment advantage. Placing friendly figures outside the start zone, deploying last, big bonus to init on the first turn....
--Order marker X destruction.

[jcb231]

In classic or Marvel, I would love to see a figure with X marker destruction. That would be an awesome power....for balance sake though it would probably have to be just a temporary, one-round X marker removal, and you'd probably have to activate the destroyer figure in order to use the power each time.

Something like...

"When you reveal a numbered order marker on The Destroyer, choose an opponent. That opponent must immediately reveal his or her "X" Order Marker and keep it revealed for the remainder of the round."

If they wanted to nerf that, there could be a d20 roll involved, or the need to reveal your X marker as well.