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  #97  
Old October 13th, 2020, 12:50 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Kiora, the Rising Tide - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Since Re-Tak-Shi converts all land or water spaces, but Durnipia only converts land spaces, no matter the order in which their abilities are applied RTS's Ooze will always override Durnipia's Carried By Waves.
That relies on the theory that land spaces converted to swamp water are no longer land spaces. Could Mika place a shadow tile on top of a grass space that's been converted to swamp water by RTS? I'm not sure of the answer to it, though the thought that it is no longer a "land space" is a reasonable interpretation.

If we buy that, it does fall into the same argument that we allowed for the GIE-RTS interaction, that there is only one final result. So I agree it works.
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  #98  
Old October 13th, 2020, 01:01 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Kiora, the Rising Tide - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Since Re-Tak-Shi converts all land or water spaces, but Durnipia only converts land spaces, no matter the order in which their abilities are applied RTS's Ooze will always override Durnipia's Carried By Waves.
That relies on the theory that land spaces converted to swamp water are no longer land spaces. Could Mika place a shadow tile on top of a grass space that's been converted to swamp water by RTS? I'm not sure of the answer to it, though the thought that it is no longer a "land space" is a reasonable interpretation.

If we buy that, it does fall into the same argument that we allowed for the GIE-RTS interaction, that there is only one final result. So I agree it works.
I thought it was clear from RTS ability that all land or water spaces are considered to [instead] be swamp water spaces for all purposes. I suppose you COULD interpret the power to mean that all land or water spaces are considered to be swamp water spaces in addition to their original designation. However, this seems like a poor reading of the power and goes against the precedent set by GIE (water tiles affected by GIE aren't still considered to be water in addition to ice, right? For example, Water Clone isn't boosted if a Marro Warrior is standing on a water space affected by GIE?)
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  #99  
Old October 13th, 2020, 01:07 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Kiora, the Rising Tide - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Since Re-Tak-Shi converts all land or water spaces, but Durnipia only converts land spaces, no matter the order in which their abilities are applied RTS's Ooze will always override Durnipia's Carried By Waves.
That relies on the theory that land spaces converted to swamp water are no longer land spaces. Could Mika place a shadow tile on top of a grass space that's been converted to swamp water by RTS? I'm not sure of the answer to it, though the thought that it is no longer a "land space" is a reasonable interpretation.

If we buy that, it does fall into the same argument that we allowed for the GIE-RTS interaction, that there is only one final result. So I agree it works.
I thought it was clear from RTS ability that all land or water spaces are considered to [instead] be swamp water spaces for all purposes. I suppose you COULD interpret the power to mean that all land or water spaces are considered to be swamp water spaces in addition to their original designation. However, this seems like a poor reading of the power and goes against the precedent set by GIE (water tiles affected by GIE aren't still considered to be water in addition to ice, right? For example, Water Clone isn't boosted if a Marro Warrior is standing on a water space affected by GIE?)
Yeah, it's certainly a reasonable interpretation, and almost certainly the right one. It's weird because "land space" is pretty much defined as "not a flat tile," and it still isn't a flat tile. But yeah, it's swamp water.
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  #100  
Old October 13th, 2020, 01:08 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Kiora, the Rising Tide - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Since Re-Tak-Shi converts all land or water spaces, but Durnipia only converts land spaces, no matter the order in which their abilities are applied RTS's Ooze will always override Durnipia's Carried By Waves.
That relies on the theory that land spaces converted to swamp water are no longer land spaces. Could Mika place a shadow tile on top of a grass space that's been converted to swamp water by RTS? I'm not sure of the answer to it, though the thought that it is no longer a "land space" is a reasonable interpretation.

If we buy that, it does fall into the same argument that we allowed for the GIE-RTS interaction, that there is only one final result. So I agree it works.
I thought it was clear from RTS ability that all land or water spaces are considered to [instead] be swamp water spaces for all purposes. I suppose you COULD interpret the power to mean that all land or water spaces are considered to be swamp water spaces in addition to their original designation. However, this seems like a poor reading of the power and goes against the precedent set by GIE (water tiles affected by GIE aren't still considered to be water in addition to ice, right? For example, Water Clone isn't boosted if a Marro Warrior is standing on a water space affected by GIE?)
Yeah, it's certainly a reasonable interpretation, and almost certainly the right one. It's weird because "land space" is pretty much defined as "not a flat tile," and it still isn't a flat tile. But yeah, it's swamp water.
I feel like its the only reasonable interpretation, unless you're willing to say that water turned to ice still counts as water for the purpose of Microcorp, Water Clone, and the like, which doesn't seem reasonable to me.
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  #101  
Old October 13th, 2020, 01:57 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Durnipia (Kiora, the Rising Tide) - Design

Alright OP Updated (even with a flashy new title). I've included a couple FAQs concerning RTS and Mika Connour. I can add in the interaction with other water spaces too, if its needed.

If @Scytale is sufficiently happy with Carried By Waves as is, I call that we move to Public Review.

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  #102  
Old October 13th, 2020, 02:03 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Durnipia (Kiora, the Rising Tide) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Alright OP Updated (even with a flashy new title). I've included a couple FAQs concerning RTS and Mika Connour. I can add in the interaction with other water spaces too, if its needed.

If @Scytale is sufficiently happy with Carried By Waves as is, I call that we move to Public Review.
Thanks flameslayer! Looks good. The only thing I'd mention is that Healing Waters still references Kiora instead of Durnipia. Other than that I think we're ready for public review as long as Scytale thinks the "spaces considered to be something else are not also considered to be the original thing" argument is reasonable and good to proceed with.

Based on the ratio of ranged to melee units in the set I still think that we should keep the possibility of boosting her range in the back of our minds, but I don't think that's necessary yet unless the rest of the pod wants to adopt it.
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  #103  
Old October 13th, 2020, 02:09 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Durnipia (Kiora, the Rising Tide) - Design

You saw no such mistake.

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  #104  
Old October 13th, 2020, 09:11 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Durnipia (Kiora, the Rising Tide) - Design

Well done, folks. This one is tricky.
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  #105  
Old October 25th, 2020, 06:30 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Durnipia (Kiora, the Rising Tide) - Design

Okay, so - flameslayer called the vote for public feedback, and I forgot to vote, so here we go,

Let's get her and the Sentinels to PF phase.
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  #106  
Old October 25th, 2020, 06:38 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Durnipia (Kiora, the Rising Tide) - Design

from me for Public Feedback Phase.
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  #107  
Old October 29th, 2020, 02:27 AM
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Re: [Pod 2] Durnipia (Kiora, the Rising Tide) - Design

since its for an entry level type Master set, what would be wrong with taking the rulings and interpretations out of it and just adding the red below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
CARRIED BY WAVES
All land spaces within 1 space of Durnipia that are no more than 5 levels above or below Durnipia's base are considered water spaces instead of land spaces. Durnipia and friendly figures who start their move adjacent to Durnipia do not have to stop their movement when entering a water space.

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  #108  
Old October 29th, 2020, 01:06 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Durnipia (Kiora, the Rising Tide) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strack9 View Post
since its for an entry level type Master set, what would be wrong with taking the rulings and interpretations out of it and just adding the red below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
CARRIED BY WAVES
All land spaces within 1 space of Durnipia that are no more than 5 levels above or below Durnipia's base are considered water spaces instead of land spaces. Durnipia and friendly figures who start their move adjacent to Durnipia do not have to stop their movement when entering a water space.
Hmmm, that would make the power clearer I think. The only "problem" with this change would be that the wording would no longer as closely match the precedent set by Re-Tak-Shi in her "Swamp Ooze" power. I could potentially see some players becoming confused by trying to figure out what the difference is between spaces that are just "considered swamp water spaces" (Re Tak Shi) and spaces that are "considered water spaces instead of land spaces" (Durnipia), when our intent is to make the powers function the same, with the only difference being the terrain types affected, and the terrain types they are changed to.
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