NM24 - Process

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

I will give the first

[Swamper]

[Scapemage]

[badgermaniac]

Originally Posted by Lord Dragonix

Since there were no comments or corrections on the last wording of Bamf! I offered, here is the card with the current wording:

(If you already addressed this, just ignore...as I haven't read all of the posts in the process.)

Is there a reason that he must move to a space within 6 CLEAR SIGHT spaces as opposed to any space within 6 spaces? Thematically, he can and does teleport through walls and such.

It seemed like an unnecessary stipulation thematically, and also one that restricts some interesting gameplay.

Imagine that you are about to get blasted by Ultron's encephalo ray. NC can grab a teammate and teleport them both to safety behind a wall or tree or whatever.

[Lord Dragonix]

Traditionally, Nightcrawler's teleportation requires that he see what he is teleporting to. If he can't see where he is going, there is a risk that he will materialize inside of something, the wall which was thicker than he guessed, a wall behind the wall, a person behind the wall, the ground which is higher behind the wall, etc. The second X-MEN movie actually takes a brief moment to explain this when he is teleporting Storm into the mock Cerebro, which was a nice nod to comic readers. If he already knows where he is going, because he was there before or can see footage of it or something like that, then the risk is reduced, but it still remains. And, it would be too difficult to work in a mechanic which accounts for this.

Mechanically it gives Nightcrawler different limitations when teleporting than it does Deadpool, Lady Viper, or Wolverine as Death. It also seems a fair way to balance the added bonus that Nightcrawler carries figures as well.

Further, I'm not sure that the argument that Nightcrawler should be able to teleport beyond what he can see in front of him despite how he is written holds, because it is clearly a well defined limitation which has been repeatedly brought up over the character's history and is not so much an oversight of creative imagination on the part of comic writers.

[badgermaniac]

I know what was in the movie. You will notice however, even in the movie, he DID teleport into Cerebro. He does teleport "blindly" quite often in the books I have read, even though there is that "sometimes stated" risk.

To call it a well-defined limitation is not accurate. In fact, I would argue that it is most definitely NOT well-defined.

(My caveat is that I have "only" read maybe 75-100 X-men books.)

I would also strongly disagree that the mechanic is too hard to work in. In fact, it would be quite easy.

A better answer on your part IMO would have been, "No...no reason really....just chose to not use it."

Oh well, just curious.

[hi1hi1hi1hi1]

Originally Posted by badgermaniac

A better answer on your part IMO would have been, "No...no reason really....just chose to not use it."

Oh well, just curious.

This response was unnecessary. You asked Lord Dragonix for his reasoning and he gave it to you. There was no provoking or anger at your question.

Anyway, I have seen it portrayed both ways. I believe initially there was more of a concern about teleporting in the middle of things; however, it has seemed to have lessened over the years. I'd be fine with it either way.

Nightcrawler couldn't grab a friend and teleport during Ultron's turn anyway so you're not really losing much.

[Lord Dragonix]

Originally Posted by badgermaniac

I would also strongly disagree that the mechanic is too hard to work in. In fact, it would be quite easy.

The mechanic I was referring to was the idea that we could somehow track where Nightcrawler had been throughout the whole of the game in order to allow him to teleport to those spaces even if he could no longer see them. I don't think it would be easy or convenient to leave a breadcrumb trail of everywhere Nightcrawler had been.

As to the fact that Nightcrawler does teleport through objects/walls, I most often have seen this done to imply drama in the moment and to showcase Nightcrawler's heroism. Granted, in some of the most recent comics this has been reduced; however, many of Nightcrawler's limitations were slowly being eroded up until his death. So it isn't that the limitation is not well defined, it is just that this showcasing of heroism has been overdone to the point that it appears the limitation doesn't actually exist.

One of the most prominent showcasings of Nightcrawler's limitations in my memory was in the Star Trek Next Generation/X-MEN novel Planet X. A little outside of standard continuity but still a good read. I remember Nightcrawler having to study the sensor scans of an enemy ship in order to teleport himself and Data over to the enemy's engineering section. He did make it over, but passed out immediately afterword.

It isn't that I arbitrarily decided to make Nightcrawler's power this way and am now searching for excuses. When I designed his power, I did it with the above thoughts in mind as well as a hope to limit his utility in game. Even if my reasoning is wrong/misdirected, that does not mean it was not there.

[badgermaniac]

Originally Posted by Lord Dragonix

The mechanic I was referring to was the idea that we could somehow track where Nightcrawler had been throughout the whole of the game in order to allow him to teleport to those spaces even if he could no longer see them. I don't think it would be easy or convenient to leave a breadcrumb trail of everywhere Nightcrawler had been.

As to the fact that Nightcrawler does teleport through objects/walls, I most often have seen this done to imply drama in the moment and to showcase Nightcrawler's heroism. Granted, in some of the most recent comics this has been reduced; however, many of Nightcrawler's limitations were slowly being eroded up until his death. So it isn't that the limitation is not well defined, it is just that this showcasing of heroism has been overdone to the point that it appears the limitation doesn't actually exist.

One of the most prominent showcasings of Nightcrawler's limitations in my memory was in the Star Trek Next Generation/X-MEN novel Planet X. A little outside of standard continuity but still a good read. I remember Nightcrawler having to study the sensor scans of an enemy ship in order to teleport himself and Data over to the enemy's engineering section. He did make it over, but passed out immediately afterword.

It isn't that I arbitrarily decided to make Nightcrawler's power this way and am now searching for excuses. When I designed his power, I did it with the above thoughts in mind as well as a hope to limit his utility in game. Even if my reasoning is wrong/misdirected, that does not mean it was not there.

I certainly wasn't implying that you should try to keep track of where he was. I just wondered why you didn't allow him to go wherever he wanted. THAT is an easy mechanic.

As I already said, I have seen it both ways. I just thought it was an unnecessary restriction so I was curious as to why you chose to portray it the way you did.

To Hi...my point was that his response to my question was that it was thematic, which is pretty clearly not true for reasons you mentioned. He said things like that was "traditionally" how it was shown or that it was a clearly defined limitation, nearly of which is accurate.

As noted in his second post, the real reason was that he preferred to showcase one interpretation of the power (which is obviously better considering the scope of the NM24 process). This explanation is valid, the first...not so much, so I was confused.

You are reading into the comment way beyond what was written.

[Lord Dragonix]

Just double checked how Nightcrawler died recently. He teleported into the same space as was shared by Bastion's arm and fused with it. Bastion may have redirected his teleport (he said he was using countermeasures for the mutant power in use,) but this shows even in the most recent comics there is a risk to Nightcrawler if he teleports to the wrong place. This occurs in X-FORCE # 26; it is in the Second Coming collected volume.

I want to double check a few things. There are 3 thumbs up, so the card is approved, right? So, I put the NM24 stamp on the card somewhere. Then, I post the card into that halls of justice thread. And, I contact the heroscaper whose card I would recommend for this process next. Finally, assuming I receive permission, I post the card I picked for this process here.

[quozl]

Yes, you have the process correct.

[The B.I.V.]

Case closed! Next!