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  #7441  
Old November 10th, 2021, 10:20 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
is this double spaced? I can't remember
Yes.
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  #7442  
Old November 10th, 2021, 10:27 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Well, now I slightly regret the no vote on the first version of the Feral Swog. I liked the idea of him having all these unique synergy webs. He's probably more official like this though. It's still a very cool theme and solid simple execution. to review

Of course will need to test how he does with Spiders and Quahon as a replacement for Marro Warriors in that build; does getting a second bonding option for cheap allow Spiders to win matchup they'd otherwise struggle in, or smooth their performance when Quahon has a bad game? But I will test and find out.
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  #7443  
Old November 11th, 2021, 09:57 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I liked the Feral Swog before, and I like this version too.

to review the Feral Swog
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  #7444  
Old November 14th, 2021, 12:23 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I am not an SoV judge, but I am interested in the Feral Swog. The 3 way Synergy from before was really neat. I'm a little disappointed that it wasn't kept. If I remember correctly, the issue most judges had wasn't the number of bonding options, but that you didn't realize there were so many, and thus had not tested all of them. If you really don't want to have all of those options, that's fine, but I just hope they weren't removed just to make the SoV vote easier.

If you simply wanted to remove the unintended bonding option, you could have simply changed the personality to "Fearsome" from "Wild". Why did you decide to remove "Beast Training" and stop Arrow Gruts from bonding as well? -my tired brain forgot that you addressed this in the resubmission.

Last edited by Leaf_It; November 14th, 2021 at 12:41 AM.
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  #7445  
Old November 14th, 2021, 01:35 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I think that the Feral Swog is still compelling without three-way bonding, and it even feels more elegant without Beast Training there to net an additional synergy. to review.
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  #7446  
Old November 14th, 2021, 02:41 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I agree, interested to see if the swog is a must in a spider quahon build or is strong not its own. Yes to reviews


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  #7447  
Old November 15th, 2021, 03:16 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The Feral Swog by @MegaSilver has received 4 Yea votes to review (vegietarian18, Scytale, Astroking112, and wriggz) and moves forward in the process.
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  #7448  
Old November 15th, 2021, 03:55 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
I am not an SoV judge, but I am interested in the Feral Swog. The 3 way Synergy from before was really neat. I'm a little disappointed that it wasn't kept. If I remember correctly, the issue most judges had wasn't the number of bonding options, but that you didn't realize there were so many, and thus had not tested all of them. If you really don't want to have all of those options, that's fine, but I just hope they weren't removed just to make the SoV vote easier.

If you simply wanted to remove the unintended bonding option, you could have simply changed the personality to "Fearsome" from "Wild". Why did you decide to remove "Beast Training" and stop Arrow Gruts from bonding as well? -my tired brain forgot that you addressed this in the resubmission.
FWIW, which admittedly isn't much, I agree with Leaf here. I feel it loses some of its swog-ness by not being able to bond with the Arrow Gruts. I currently see a stat block that could just as well be a generic sabretooth tiger. I think the simplicity of this iteration detracts from the theme that the original idea had.

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  #7449  
Old November 15th, 2021, 04:16 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I am also disappointed at the loss of Beast Training. I liked the flexibility it provided and the theme.
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  #7450  
Old November 16th, 2021, 03:52 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Wulfling Hunters by @Shiftrex

After a number of design iterations, it's time for the Wulflings to hit the table.

Balance

The Wulflings are a two-figure melee squad with average stats except for a good Move value. The closest current equivalent is the Beakface Sneaks, who not only are another 2-figure squad with similar stats but also similar abilities. The Wulflings, though, have a little better Defense and the ability to not only move other figures but attack with them, albeit at the cost of first having to deal damage themselves instead of simply attacking. I'd say that the Wulflings are a bit better, but they cost almost twice as much. At the very least they won't outclass the Sneaks.

Theme

The figures are great. The two are the same figure in the same pose, but the significant difference in weaponry makes them look different enough. I'd like to see these figures in the game, and the theme of hunters is fitting for them.

Stealthy is a great fit for hunters, both thematically and mechanically: it fits the idea of hunters stalking their prey, and it gives them much-needed protection against ranged attacks. The Hunt is less direct thematically but decent. It invokes the image of other hunters rushing in to help bring down a kill, at least in concept. The stats are overall fitting.

Creativity

While we have Hunter class units in Heroscape, on the battlefield they've never really felt much like hunters to me. That's simply a function of the skirmish-style game that Heroscape is; the patient stalking that goes along with hunting doesn't really work when no units are physically hidden and the only goal of the "prey" is to kill the hunters. This design is an attempt to make a unit that plays like stalking hunters. To do that, they need to have powers that would be useful not only in a hunt but on a skirmish battlefield as well. I appreciate the attempt, and the tightness of the design.

Playability

How do the Wulfling Hunters actually play on the battlefield? I tried numerous different playstyles to figure out how to make the most of them. I really hoped I'd be able to stalk a bunch of them into striking range, tanking some ranged attacks, and then strike out with a strong The Hunt turn. It just didn't work, though; it takes too long to set up, and 6 Defense (with Stealthy) just doesn't hold up long enough, especially since the tactic usually requires allowing the enemy to take height. And if it does work, all it gives is one turn of four activations, which is what many squads get without any effort.

The best luck I had was when I abandoned the "hunt" playstyle and simply used them as sharks, similar to both the Beakface Sneaks and the Durgeth Ravagers. The Wulflings have some neat tricks over both of these, most notably taking double turns with individual figures. If a Wulflling engages a single squad figure and kills it, that Wulfling is (usually) unengaged after that turn and can take another turn with The Hunt, which makes for a sizeable threat range.

The problem is, Attack 3 is much too unreliable. In fact, it's all too common that they fail to land a single blow, which completely halts their momentum. Defense 3 is ok, but when played as sharks there are only a couple of them on the front lines suffering the entire counterattack, and those defense dice just don't hold up to that. The Beakface Sneaks rely on cheap figures and reliable bonus movements to keep up pressure, and the Durgeth use their higher attacking power to hold advantage. The Wulflings have neither.

The Wulflings can do pretty well in cleanup. The "hunter" design seems to work well when there are a handful of figures scattered around the map to finish off. But with only one squad they don't demonstrate much of their potential, and even two squads of them together are outclassed by Marro Warriors in the cleanup role. They do make for a fun opponent to face in a dungeon crawl scenario, with a pack of Wulflings hunting the adventuring heroes, though they don't usually accomplish much if the heroes stick together.

Summary

When it comes down to it, I just don't think that a pack of hunters works with Heroscape's skirmish system, at least outside of special scenarios. The Wulflings are good at cornering and bringing down lone figures, but they have neither the staying power nor the momentum to take on an opposing army. Perhaps other Wulfling units could make them viable (with specific abilities to shore up their problems), but if they are submitted on their own they need to be able to stand on their own.

I vote Nay to induct the Wulfling Hunters into the SoV.
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  #7451  
Old November 24th, 2021, 09:25 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Ever since the Feral Swog had moved forward in the process, I've received several requests for the Beast Training to be added back to it.

While I personally didn't the like idea of mixed Orc bonding with the Feral Swog, others seem to wish it back. And the Swog Rider can do it.

So I'll withdraw non-Training Feral Swog, and resubmit the previous version for consideration. Apologies for the update.

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  #7452  
Old November 24th, 2021, 10:09 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The old version was like a big Mac without sauce. Sure it's eatable but felt like it was missing something. :Up: to review.


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