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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #1  
Old September 14th, 2007, 12:53 AM
WolfsRain226 WolfsRain226 is offline
 
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Kato Katsuro! The commander

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

Well they may have been decent units, but who played with them?

but now in expansion 8 theres a great new hero unit KATO KATSURO!!

His skills are you can sacrafice his tun to move any samuri squad or samuri hero, or to move both kinds of Ashigaru units, now pay attention to this because it gets intresting now. Lets assume your Renquist and you use pure samuri or you can just be yourself, it doesnt matter, its still a well put-together pure old school style Japan army using some Overlooked units. Here it goes, listening?

Well for starters put all your order markers on Kato Katsuro.
If you are wondering why, i shall explain, if his ability is let you move anybody in your army, or move him, you can move anybody bassically.
Also you can advance with 8 units at once if you move the Ashigaru.
If you dont do that, you can move Kaemon Awa or ANY* samuri squad, ANY!!

so this is what i pictured

Kato Katsuro (200)

Ashigaru (both kinds) x2 (200)

and any samuri sqaud you can think of, an alternative is to have x3 of both kinds of Ashigaru, ( you can move 24 and attack with 24 units in 3 turns.

if you really wanted, take out one of the spear or gunner Ashigaru and put in Kaemon Awa.

As you can see ive thought about this, and i hope my explanation helped out some, if you think about it, its a cool army of pure Japan units.

Also another point i may add is that you will have possibly a large army to overwhelm your opponent.
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  #2  
Old September 14th, 2007, 01:29 AM
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Aldin Aldin is offline
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Pretty interesting, I think you are really getting the idea of adding content. You seemed to be asking for constructive criticism, so here are some ways your post could have been even better:

1) Spell check. Your spelling and capitalization are pretty good and can be better. Remember, you are writing this post to be admired by your peers and your peers like good spelling.

2) I still haven't seen the Ashigaru in stores so the primary reason I haven't played with them is that I haven't had the chance to buy them yet. I suspect that's true of many here. Before relegating a unit to the conceptual dust bin you may want to wait until it's been available for a while. You could have written the same post but instead of saying "but who played with them" you could say something like "but it was difficult to really feel like you were getting full value out of them".

3) Know the troops and the points. I see your core recommendation of KK+2xAH+2XAS for 400 points. It is common to offer builds from 400-600 points. The three unique Samurai squads cost 60, 100 and 120 points. KA costs 120 as well, while the TSA run 65 each. So in a 500 point build you might consider the Kozuke for a perfect 100 point fit to your 400 point core. For a 600 point army it might be either Kaemon Awa or the Tagawa Samurai in addition to an extra two squads of AS (or even Raelin). For a 400 point army you might chuck a squad of the AS to add the Izumi. Any of these offer a lot of options in addition to the single card marker placement mentioned (Raelin excepted). This part should have been the bread and butter of your post and might even have extended to observing that the TSA are not a good match because of how awkward their points are in comparison to the others.

4) Close call on whether this is a strategy post or a competitive army post. I think it works here, especially if you emphasize the possible army builds as mentioned above. If you were aiming to be ultra-conservative you might have waited until it was available and then posted this as a response in the Book of Kato Katsuro, but I don't see any issues with this thread frontrunning that one.

All-in-all, great effort at adding value to our community. Well done

~Aldin, eager for his Ashigaru

He either fears his fate too much
or his desserts are small
That dares not put it to the touch
to gain or lose it all
~James Graham
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  #3  
Old September 14th, 2007, 01:32 PM
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TexMex TexMex is offline
 
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While agreeing with all of Aldin's points, I've been thinking of the possible strategies Kato makes possible. With his versatility, you can put all of your order markers on him, and have the most flexible army possible, literally being able to react to every move your opponent makes. But I still see one major problem with this (to my disgruntlement): Kato costs 200 points! In a standard 500 point battle, that doesn't give you many options for the remaining 300 points, especially when you consider that you kind of have to bring Kaemon Awa to the table to face other heavy hitters. This leaves you with 180 points, meaning that the most samurai units you could have would be 2 unless you're using a lot of Ashigaru (but like Aldin, I'm not sure how useful they'd be). Of course, in high point battles, I could see the Kato strategy really cleaning up

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  #4  
Old September 14th, 2007, 08:41 PM
WolfsRain226 WolfsRain226 is offline
 
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True

True indeed. But if you reconsider his skills, he was desighned to command the Ashigaru units, this said, he serves his purpose well. He is a pricy 200 points, BUT, you said it yourself, you can react to anything your opponent does with any unit! He offers something great at that price!! Instead of "Oh no, my Samuri are being attacked, i better move them! OH NO, i cant, i dont have any more order markers on them. You see with Kato, he is the over-all commander of the Japan units, so you can move them out of harms way rather then having to wait. You have to see that abillity as well to understand that with high point value comes a Leader of great Stature!
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  #5  
Old September 15th, 2007, 03:01 AM
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With so many Ashigaru, I wouldn't even worry about the heavy hitters, just Deathwalker 8K. Of course Q9 would rip through them pretty fast -- he will probably kill 4-5 a turn with his Q-gun special attack. But I think eventually they would overwhelm him. Q9 + deathreavers, however, is another story.
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  #6  
Old September 15th, 2007, 08:47 PM
WolfsRain226 WolfsRain226 is offline
 
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not

Not in a Pure general battle! DeathReavers are Utgar not Vydar. strange i thought this Thread would be more popular
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  #7  
Old September 16th, 2007, 03:25 PM
WolfsRain226 WolfsRain226 is offline
 
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True

True true. DeathWalker 8000 will rip throught 5 or more units in one turn, it is a great weakness of this army. With the Ashigaru units only having one Defence, DeathWalker 8000 will rip through possibly your whole army in 1 turn.
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  #8  
Old November 6th, 2007, 10:48 AM
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Hero Hot Hatch Hero Hot Hatch is offline
 
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Hero Hot Hatch knows what's in an order marker Hero Hot Hatch knows what's in an order marker
Kato Katsuro Should be awsome. It is pricey, but it will be handy. I'm disappointed that counter strike is not listed on the card, however. There is no bonding with Hatamoto in that regard and counter strike is a feature that I love about the samurais.

What I like about this one besides the great looking sculp and paint job is the possibility of making order markers less restrictive. This is like a reverse-bonding in theory. How many of us have been faced with the dilema of giving an order marker to a unit that is about to be anniquiliated at least to use it one more time if possible or just give an order marker to another unit with more lives left or more squads to move or a squad with hero bonding that could just get hammered in one turn?

Everybody who has ever played HS has faced this or a similar dilemma. That is where Kato gets his points worth. Assume that in my head I wanted to place the first order marker on Kaemon, but Kaemon has only one live left and something like Krug is nearby and it is pissed with multiple wounds already. If I placed the order marker on Kaemon and he gets killed by a pissed off Krug, that's it. I loose a turn. However, if I place all my order marker in a well protected Kato but within sight, I could still play that turn and move/attack with some other samurai(s) Ashigarus. That is something.

I'm looking forward to this one. This one is for armies worth 500+ at least because at 200, you are ironically left with less units to fill up. I mean Kaemon and Kato together are 320! Nevertheless, it becomes a more flexible play and one where you would really like 600+ armies (throw that hotty Raelin (classic) in there with all the samurais like a guardian angel).

Note: My strategy against Krug/Orc armies does not necessarily involve a samurai army. I'm just illustrating.

I don't care about choosing my army based on strategy. I choose an army based on coolness and personal appeal... even if it means that my units will die trying. Hail to the glory of HeroScape and bravery.
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  #9  
Old November 6th, 2007, 11:15 AM
DeadZa DeadZa is offline
 
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I think posting strategy about Kato is pretty early. Considering he won't be out until 2008 a good amount could change about him, and personally I hope a little bit does but I still really want to try him out. I haven't been able to find his card but for 200pts he sounds a tad pricey outside of an all (or nearly all) Spear/Gun horde army. Mixing him with too many Samurai seems a poor choice as 200pts for flexability on order markers isn't worth the pay off. Does anyone recall what his combat stats are?

*IF* he doesn't change the best bet sounds to be:


500pts
Kate 200
Rifle 2 120
Kozuke 100
Yari 2 80

Good mix of range and melee with the horde tactics and the Kozuke add a quick punch when needed. Awful defense though, lots of squad members are going to drop off and the longer the game the worse the chances.
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  #10  
Old November 6th, 2007, 11:55 AM
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tyguy94920 tyguy94920 is offline
 
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I was thinking a

Kato- 200
Awa- 120
Tawaga- 120
Izumi- 60

For 500 points

Plus Kozoke for 600

Click Above for My Sig Link
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  #11  
Old November 6th, 2007, 02:25 PM
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Hero Hot Hatch Hero Hot Hatch is offline
 
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Hero Hot Hatch knows what's in an order marker Hero Hot Hatch knows what's in an order marker
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadZa
I think posting strategy about Kato is pretty early. Considering he won't be out until 2008 a good amount could change about him, and personally I hope a little bit does but I still really want to try him out. I haven't been able to find his card but for 200pts he sounds a tad pricey outside of an all (or nearly all) Spear/Gun horde army. Mixing him with too many Samurai seems a poor choice as 200pts for flexability on order markers isn't worth the pay off. Does anyone recall what his combat stats are?
Look under Gallery and Gen-con 2007. There is a picture of Kato's card. I think that we are exploring possibilities of potential uses rather than strategies. Strategies are generally map-dependent and you have to know who you are fighting as well. This is more like Kato's commanding powers - a preliminary discussion. I don't think that we should wait for the units to be out there to start discussing it.

I don't care about choosing my army based on strategy. I choose an army based on coolness and personal appeal... even if it means that my units will die trying. Hail to the glory of HeroScape and bravery.
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  #12  
Old November 6th, 2007, 04:17 PM
blitz blitz is offline
 
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I've proxied the Ashigaru Yari and Harquebus a few times. They seem to be very capable units considering their cost and abilities. They're not wonder squads, but they're not meant to be. Anybody who has played a lot 4thMass, zombies, and heavy gruts should have no problems in using the Ashigaru straight out of the box.

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