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Reload this Page Ken Burns' Vietnam
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  #1  
Old September 16th, 2017, 10:15 AM
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Ken Burns' Vietnam
Tomorrow is the airing of the first episode of the new Ken Burns Documentary Vietnam, which will kick off some interesting discussions across the country. I've already ordered the DVD set from PBS, which will allow me to watch and rewatch at leisure. As a member of the generation which fought it or was around then to see the fissures in the USA at that time, I agree with Mr. Burns' statement that "The Baby Boomer generation is still trying to figure out what happened."

I didn't serve, being the second to last high school graduation class to get student college deferments, and they stopped calling draftees I think three months before I got out of college (1969-1973). Which was particularly lucky, since in a random draft lottery depending on your birth date, where #365 you should not have to go, and #1 you were practically on the way, my Draft Number was #2!

I recall how the professors changed their demenors a bit when veterans came home and entered school on the GI Bill. The former soldiers sat there in the lecture hall in bits of their old uniforms, fitting right in with those of us wearing old US Army surplus "fashion," and looked back at the teachers with an air of skepticism, as if to say "Okay, are you going to tell us the truth?"
Last edited by chas; September 22nd, 2017 at 01:16 PM.
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  #2  
Old September 18th, 2017, 07:19 AM
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Re: Ken Burns' Vietnam
I watched a little over an hour of the first episode and will watch the rest of it tomorrow night. It was really good.

I have read books like The Nam, and 13th Valley, which are both great, and I new the French had been involved previously. But I didn't know to the extent the French had been involved and how we even got involved with Ho Chi Minh during WWII.

Good stuff!
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Old September 18th, 2017, 07:42 AM
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Re: Ken Burns' Vietnam
Only got through the first episode. Good stuff as always.
I would have actually preferred a special on Korea.
Most of my knowledge comes from MASH.

Interesting how no one holds France accountable for their persecution of Vietnam.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 08:59 AM
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Re: Ken Burns' Vietnam
Well, I would suspect that the Vietnamese might want to hold the French accountable. But the rest of Europe wouldn't likely say anything, since many of them did the Colonial thing and probably didn't have room to talk. We may have had issues with it, but perhaps the cold war forced is to leave it be since we needed all the allies we could get and not risk existing ones.

I certainly have more empathy for the Vietnamese in knowing how long they had been screwed over. And Ho Chi Minh seemed to have tried to get help for his people for awhile, and while we used them to help against the Japanese at the end of WWII, we didn't help them against the French oppression, and actually supported the French. So when China and the Soviet Union offered help, it's kind of hard to blame Ho Chi Minh for taking it.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 09:29 AM
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Re: Ken Burns' Vietnam
Yeah, we blew it.

Why were we supporting France anyway? Did we really need them as an ally?

It sounded like the president acted on his own accord and assisted the French without the support of Congress.
It felt like to me that their was this over riding fear of the word Communist.
We did not believe their could be 'good communists'.

Really enlightening to get the back story on how we got to the Vietnam Conflict.
Ho Chi Minh was quite the man. Almost like Budha to his people.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 09:39 AM
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Re: Ken Burns' Vietnam
I thought at some point, they mentioned that France basically said they needed our help and somehow tied it to not being taken over by the Soviets. I forget the exact exchange in that regard, but it seemed important.

I can't blame the Vietnamese for hating the French, and then when we backed the French after buddying up to Ho Chi Minh in WWII to help fight the Japanese, I can't blame him for hating us. We were supporting the French military and basically funding most of it, while it was killing and oppressing Vietnamese.

Then there are the poor Vietnamese that just wanted to live their lives, but if they had worked with the French, they were targets of the Viet Minh.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 11:52 AM
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Re: Ken Burns' Vietnam
Most TV shows and films (and other art forms) reflect the views and concerns of the time they are made, even if they are set in a historical period, or are even Science Fiction. MASH was "set" in Korea, but was about the Vietnam War. The original author of the comedic MASH novel hated the movie and the TV show for their very liberal viewpoints.

***

The French were our traditional and "first" ally--we might not have won the American Revolution without them. Like the British, they had been our allies in WWI. Because they had been defeated by the Germans in WWII, we played the major role in putting them back on their feet afterwards. Remember, we were afraid that the Communists would take over all of Europe back then, and we needed (or felt that we needed) all the friends we could get there. That's why NATO was formed.

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Old September 18th, 2017, 03:48 PM
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Re: Ken Burns' Vietnam
But how exactly could the French help us in Europe if they could not even maintain control of Vietnam?
From what I could gather the French people were not happy about their involvement in Vietnam as they called it the Dirty War.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 03:57 PM
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Re: Ken Burns' Vietnam
Both the British and French, more or less bankrupt after WWII, felt that they needed to keep their colonial empires to stay afloat even more than ever. The British could not even produce enough food for themselves (and never had). The French were being totally propped up by the USA for a while. America had liberated France and rearmed their forces, as the French recreated their government and nation. But if they couldn't get their act together, they would remain dependent upon the USA. Both allies defined getting their acts together as continuing to draw resources from their colonies!

The British immediately had trouble with India, who had helped them in WWII, and was granted independence. There would soon be many other "colonial" revolts in many other nations as well. The Japanese, even though they eventually lost, had proved for the first time during WWII that the white nations were not invincible.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 04:23 PM
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Re: Ken Burns' Vietnam
Right, the French needed to be able to get back on their feet. If they couldn't get back on their feet, they would be easy marks for the Soviets.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 07:10 AM
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Re: Ken Burns' Vietnam
Got my preordered DVD set from PBS last night, just before watching the broadcast Episode Five, so I can now view the series it at leisure. The set comes with an extra 'The Making of the Viet Nam War,' which I missed when it was shown on TV.

I'm amazed that it seems no one at all at the top ever thought it was a good idea to go in, or that we could possibly win. Some of the military commanders and soldiers thought we could, but they didn't have much information to go on!

The view from the North Vietnamese command is also mostly unknown to me. For example, the fact that Ho Chi Minh was not really in power any longer during most of it.

The show is as hard to watch for a baby boomer as I expected, but now they know so much more than we did at the time about what was going on, that its worth it for me.

Now that we've more recently been invloved in similar long guerrilla type wars in the Middle East, the echoes of Vietnam come back to haunt us.

"He who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it."

This is not necessarily meant to criticise specific government policies since Vietnam. Only to note that we do not seem to have considered the previous traumatic experience when making decisions about these other situations. Will the Pax Americana that we have provided for the entire world for 72 years break down? Its a crucial question for us now, perhaps even more so than it has been since World War II, when we assumed the leadership of the Free World.
Last edited by chas; September 22nd, 2017 at 11:26 AM.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 07:44 AM
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Re: Ken Burns' Vietnam
"This is war. This is what we do."

Absolutely chilling. Great series. I think so far I enjoyed the pre-history the most. Knowing how we got to the point is pretty fascinating.
The actual war is mostly sadness.
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