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  #25  
Old November 27th, 2007, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139
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Originally Posted by Hahma
Why should anyone want it to fail?
I want it to fail. Badly. Because EVERYWHERE I go on the internet people are saying "It's going to be the best movie ever!" and I'm sick of that. So I want to see their smug little inter-faces taken down a notch.

Also, I AM against the Golden Compass. Is incorporating Christian Themes and such OK in movies like Narnia? Sure. They don't hurt anyone, and I doubt anyone will come out of a movie about a talking lion and suddenly convert to Christianity. Are outright religious films OK? Why not. They're obvious not hiding anything - it's a religous movie. But when you come out and say "Religion is evil!" where that's NOT the focus of the movie and CAN'T be glossed over, it's nothing short of propaganda.
Oh, and religious people that protest and get all kinds of press calling abortion murder isn't propaganda? It's okay to blow up abortion clinics or kill doctors that perform abortions in the name of religion, but not okay to make a movie that doesn't conform to your beliefs?

Molesting priests and crooked televangelists are fine examples of anti-religious propaganda, but the atheists aren't behind that...or are they?

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  #26  
Old November 27th, 2007, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jcb231
To be honest I don't see what the outcry is about. Yes, the book has some atheist views, and yes it can be interpreted as anit-church.. Why can't I watch an atheist movie without becoming atheist, and what would be the big deal if I did switch over? How bigoted is that..."Atheism is bad and doesn't deserve a movie."
Hello, please allow me kindly to answer these questions. First off, the "outcry" is not that this movie was written by an athiest. The outcry is that the author was decidedly anti-Christ (litterally and admittedly against Christianity) and speciffically wrote the book to combat what he thought Christianity is.

Athiests make movies all the time ("Contact", great movie based on an athiest's sci-fi fiction). That's not the problem, the book was specifically written with by a man who outspokenly alligned himself againt C.S. Lewis, against the church and against what he calls in his books "the Allmighty".

Specifics in the books to those who don't care about what the author says about himself are that he used two traditionally demonic names ("Pan" and Azriel) as characters to fight God (identified in the books as "El", YAHWEH", "Adonai", "Allmighty") and pull him into hell. Whether or not this will be included in the movies I don't know.. but it's what the author wrote.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp

And please hear this cause it's the main point.. go ahead and watch the movie if you like. No on'e calling you evil for it. I'm just saying you should know what you're feeding your kids. Material like this (that we should rebel against God) is simply not appropriate for my little kids. That's my message.

Instead me and my boys are gonna go and make some heroscape terrain out of styrophoam and glue.
  #27  
Old November 27th, 2007, 04:51 PM
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I'm against propaganda of any kind. Atheist, Christian, Republican, Democratic, Nazi, Communist, Buddhist...

Now, from what I understand the book is about an evil religion that tries to take over the world with a magic compass. The author may not have intended it to be propaganda of sorts - but it seems very much like it to me.

I'm not against it being released or anyone seeing it, but, personally, it just doesn't sit well with me.
  #28  
Old November 27th, 2007, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma
Molesting priests and crooked televangelists are fine examples of anti-religious propaganda, but the atheists aren't behind that...or are they?
When did calling evil evil become so politically incorrect??

Hating Christians = Evil. Hating Athiests = evil. Calling yourself a Christian and molesting = evil. Hating people for hating evil = crazy. Hating evil = awesome. Hating evil and calling it evil = perhaps crazy plus politically incorrect. Me = perhaps crazy awesome plus politically incorrect.
  #29  
Old November 27th, 2007, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRansom
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma
Molesting priests and crooked televangelists are fine examples of anti-religious propaganda, but the atheists aren't behind that...or are they?
When did calling evil evil become so politically incorrect??

Hating Christians = Evil. Hating Athiests = evil. Calling yourself a Christian and molesting = evil. Hating people for hating evil = crazy. Hating evil = awesome. Hating evil and calling it evil = perhaps crazy plus politically incorrect. Me = perhaps crazy awesome plus politically incorrect.
I didn't mean it to sound like those acts were being used as propaganda. I meant that it was giving religion a bad name to some people without the help of anyone else pushing it as propaganda. I wasn't clear, and may still not be. But regardless, I wasn't implying in any way that calling evil evil should be politically incorrect.

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  #30  
Old November 27th, 2007, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139
I'm against propaganda of any kind. Atheist, Christian, Republican, Democratic, Nazi, Communist, Buddhist...

Now, from what I understand the book is about an evil religion that tries to take over the world with a magic compass. The author may not have intended it to be propaganda of sorts - but it seems very much like it to me.

I'm not against it being released or anyone seeing it, but, personally, it just doesn't sit well with me.
Would a movie about Hitler's attempt to take over the world and kill all Jews be a propaganda movie?

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  #31  
Old November 27th, 2007, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139
I'm against propaganda of any kind. Atheist, Christian, Republican, Democratic, Nazi, Communist, Buddhist...

Now, from what I understand the book is about an evil religion that tries to take over the world with a magic compass. The author may not have intended it to be propaganda of sorts - but it seems very much like it to me.

I'm not against it being released or anyone seeing it, but, personally, it just doesn't sit well with me.
Would a movie about Hitler's attempt to take over the world and kill all Jews be a propaganda movie?
No. A movie about a team of heroes called the Nazis that kill evil monsters called Jews would be propaganda. It would obviously be trying to instill Nazi ideals into a one-sided, historically inaccurate film, just like The Golden Compass is obviously trying to instill anti-religious ideals into a fictional setting with a one-sided view.
  #32  
Old November 27th, 2007, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139
I'm against propaganda of any kind. Atheist, Christian, Republican, Democratic, Nazi, Communist, Buddhist...

Now, from what I understand the book is about an evil religion that tries to take over the world with a magic compass. The author may not have intended it to be propaganda of sorts - but it seems very much like it to me.

I'm not against it being released or anyone seeing it, but, personally, it just doesn't sit well with me.
Would a movie about Hitler's attempt to take over the world and kill all Jews be a propaganda movie?
No. A movie about a team of heroes called the Nazis that kill evil monsters called Jews would be propaganda. It would obviously be trying to instill Nazi ideals into a one-sided, historically inaccurate film, just like The Golden Compass is obviously trying to instill anti-religious ideals into a fictional setting with a one-sided view.
So in The Golden Compass, there is a team of heroes called the Atheists that are trying to kill the monsters called The Christians, or something to that affect?

I haven't read the books, so all I have to go on is that the trailer looked really cool and I had no idea that there was an anti-religion theme behind it. Until reading this thread and discovering that it is "supposedly anti-religion" and trying to brainwash the masses into being anti-religion.

Personally, I believe that most people are what they are and won't be swayed into being super religious or anti religious by watching a movie. The thing that irritates me about people that make big deals over these things is that they make themselves appear "superiors" that have to watch out for the weak-minded masses who might be readily influenced by watching a movie or listening to a song. It's people that treat others as inferior or easily influenced by evil doers that turn me off to organized religion more than a movie or song ever would.

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  #33  
Old November 27th, 2007, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by InfinityMax
I want to see it because of the cool polar bears in armor. I don't give a rat's patoot about religious outrage. I just want to see the polar bear battles. That's an awesome idea.

  #34  
Old November 27th, 2007, 06:15 PM
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Well, from what I've read, the main villain is a church. And the church is pretty much a big evil empire. This is an overt anti-religious theme, and it doesn't sit well with me, even though I'm not religious in any way, shape, or form. I dislike the fact the author wrote a book as one-sided propaganda (though with a well developed story, I'll admit) and I dislike the fact it's being made into a movie. Can he? Sure. It's not against the law. But I just don't think someone should use their creative talents to do that kinda thing.

Also, you said you didn't know it has anti-religious themes. THAT is why I don't like it. It's pretty much propaganda - trying to teach you that something is right or wrong without telling you first.
  #35  
Old November 27th, 2007, 07:12 PM
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I got news for you... Many large organized religions have been the driving force of evil empires many times in history. Making a movie that mirrors this is not propaganda, it is not an effort to create atheists. It is an effort to tell a story with relevance.

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  #36  
Old November 27th, 2007, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139
Well, from what I've read, the main villain is a church. And the church is pretty much a big evil empire. This is an overt anti-religious theme, and it doesn't sit well with me, even though I'm not religious in any way, shape, or form. I dislike the fact the author wrote a book as one-sided propaganda (though with a well developed story, I'll admit) and I dislike the fact it's being made into a movie. Can he? Sure. It's not against the law. But I just don't think someone should use their creative talents to do that kinda thing.

Also, you said you didn't know it has anti-religious themes. THAT is why I don't like it. It's pretty much propaganda - trying to teach you that something is right or wrong without telling you first.
Are they in fact trying to teach me something is right or wrong, or are they just producing a movie that has different religious views than the majority of the population? Did people have to be told that Narnia was a pro-religious movie just in case an atheist happened to want to see it and needed to be warned ahead of time?

I choose not to see certain movies with religious themes becuase some just don't interest me. If I don't see them it's not because I assume that they are trying to teach me something religious in that movie. I look at them as telling a story and it doesn't have to have the same religious/political or social views as I do for me to see them.

While I don't agree with the propaganda agenda behind this movie, I respect your opinion on the matter Johnny, even if I don't understand it.

I've spent enough time in this thread and will wait until I see the movie before expressing more opinions on it.

Good evening.

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