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Custom Units & Army Cards Fan-created HS army cards for units, glyphs, and equipment


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  #4117  
Old May 8th, 2020, 01:16 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I'd make it a "must" and call it Ravenous Frenzy or something.
Isn't that a little redundant with his personality...or is there precedent for that type of thing?...

Also, in terms of the change in power: SA-->Normal are you more or less concerned?

Cause one of my original reasons for doing a SA was to avoid the attack increasing with height or other potential modifiers. I think a stackable normal attack would be much harder to balance and more scary than a fixed attack value, no?
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  #4118  
Old May 8th, 2020, 02:02 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Since it is now stackable, how do you feel about lowering the Attack to 4?
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  #4119  
Old May 8th, 2020, 02:46 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Since it is now stackable, how do you feel about lowering the Attack to 4?
Well I'm not convinced it's the right call to do the version I just posted. It's just an option that I like. I think I'd prefer leaving it a SA in order to keep the att from stacking. Having a normal attack of 4, even if he can get it to 5 from height, makes him still too inconsistent. With a Normal attack of 4 he is even more likely to wound himself to death.
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  #4120  
Old May 8th, 2020, 02:48 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
With a Normal attack of 4 he is even more likely to wound himself to death.
And what's wrong with that? It would make him play unique, instead of having a downside that more a threat than a problem. It would keep the cost down.
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  #4121  
Old May 8th, 2020, 03:18 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
With a Normal attack of 4 he is even more likely to wound himself to death.
And what's wrong with that? It would make him play unique, instead of having a downside that more a threat than a problem. It would keep the cost down.
It's just not how I see his design. I don't want him to be a 90-100 point hero that you can't rely on. To me he would become frustrating to play with because he would be consistently inconsistent by wounding himself to death. Sure he'd have his occasional good games, but 4 attack and requiring that he destroy a unit to keep going makes him pretty terrible when you try to get him going by engaging 3-4 figures, he fails, wounds himself then gets swarmed and dies. That's not a fun thematic unit...that's a poorly designed unit. But 5 att ensures he's going to "get his". That is, it will put the player in a more aggressive mindset to use him and if that aggressiveness pays off, then it's thematic and fun...but overplaying him or being too aggressive should have to hurt...which it does considering he would then become a 5life 3 def hero...which frankily, is pretty easy to kill. All it takes is 3-4 attacks of 3 and down he goes.
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  #4122  
Old May 8th, 2020, 03:30 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
It means you have to play him more carefully and use his Flying to get height.
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  #4123  
Old May 8th, 2020, 03:40 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Perhaps increase his starting life ala Krug to make him more durable from his self inflicted wounds.
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  #4124  
Old May 8th, 2020, 03:43 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
It means you have to play him more carefully and use his Flying to get height.
I get that. But that's just it...this guy is a Ravenous, Devourer, Demon...he's not supposed to be careful, methodical or worry about position or opponent. His theme is wild, reckless, unrestrained. Having the player play "carefully" with him is directly against the design vision.
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  #4125  
Old May 9th, 2020, 12:45 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
If this is too much raw workshopping here, let me know and I'll take it back to my customs thread. I still am partial to my original design, but I'm considering other avenues. Here's another take on the design after thinking about our discussion


Personally, I like it. I thought long and hard about theme and if he's a Ravenous Devourer...wouldn't he also be rewarded or gain strength by sating his hunger? I think so. So I threw in a healing mechanic as well. While there isn't really a decision to be made regarding a SA or Normal etc...this design does feel like it'll be trickier for the player to handle. He must always attack, he heals every time he does, so there's the reward...but with a att of 4 the consistensy factor isn't as good. But, when it does hit, he's rewarded. The player will have to be careful still not to bite off too much, but that could also be okay because if it's an almost dead demon...what the heck go crazy and maybe heal him back. I'm half tempted to make his def 2 and his att 5 though to make him that much more volatile on both ends (i.e. heal up, but then take all the wounds again)...but curious to hear your feedback first before we have that discussion.
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  #4126  
Old May 9th, 2020, 12:52 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
I think the healing mechanic is a little dangerous here. AN destroying even 2 figures in a turn goes from a fairly strong showing to a huge swing in his favor. 4 dice tempers it a bit, but the swinginess factor compounds in a scary-looking way. If he kills a lot of figures, you get not only those kills, but also the wounds healed at the same time.

Is there any reason Sustained by Blood should be a different power from Life Drain on the current design?
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  #4127  
Old May 9th, 2020, 01:07 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
I think the healing mechanic is a little dangerous here. AN destroying even 2 figures in a turn goes from a fairly strong showing to a huge swing in his favor. 4 dice tempers it a bit, but the swinginess factor compounds in a scary-looking way. If he kills a lot of figures, you get not only those kills, but also the wounds healed at the same time.

Is there any reason Sustained by Blood should be a different power from Life Drain on the current design?
Well isn’t there a precedent for having the same power but just naming it different to fit the theme of the figure/design? Life Drain to me is specific to a Vampire who would literally suck you dry... im not sure the Demon would be so delicate. Idk, in part I just really like the power name Sustained by Blood too.

As for the Swinginess factor I agree it could be a bit much if he secures height and goes “off” on opponents figures. I considered “If Agrith-Naar destroyed at least 1 figure during his turn, remove one [up to 2?] wound markers from his army card.” But I felt that in practice it would be weird if he killed #1, killed #2, missed #3, takes a wound but then gained the wound back because he killed at least 1 figure. Maybe I just remove the “takes a wound” clause entirely and add the clause I just suggested to help balance the power level?

EDIT: So this...

Quote:
SUSTAINED BY BLOOD
After taking a turn with Agrith-Naar, if he destroyed a figure, you may remove a wound marker from this Army Card.

RAVENOUS FRENZY
After attacking, if Agrith-Naar destroyed a figure, he must attack again, if possible. Agrith-Naar must continue attacking until he does not destroy a figure.
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  #4128  
Old May 9th, 2020, 01:21 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
I think the healing mechanic is a little dangerous here. AN destroying even 2 figures in a turn goes from a fairly strong showing to a huge swing in his favor. 4 dice tempers it a bit, but the swinginess factor compounds in a scary-looking way. If he kills a lot of figures, you get not only those kills, but also the wounds healed at the same time.

Is there any reason Sustained by Blood should be a different power from Life Drain on the current design?
Well isn’t there a precedent for having the same power but just naming it different to fit the theme of the figure/design? Life Drain to me is specific to a Vampire who would literally suck you dry... im not sure the Demon would be so delicate. Idk, in part I just really like the power name Sustained by Blood too.
That does happen, and if the theme was substantially different I might agree with you, but I don’t feel that the difference between two different ways of consuming enemy blood to heal from it quite merits that.

Quote:
As for the Swinginess factor I agree it could be a bit much if he secures height and goes “off” on opponents figures. I considered “If Agrith-Naar destroyed at least 1 figure during his turn, remove one [up to 2?] wound markers from his army card.” But I felt that in practice it would be weird if he killed #1, killed #2, missed #3, takes a wound but then gained the wound back because he killed at least 1 figure. Maybe I just remove the “takes a wound” clause entirely and add the clause I just suggested to help balance the power level?
Capping the heal would certainly be less swingy. It’s a workable option, if that’s where you want to go. This is probably the point to consider what you actually want to get out of it, though. Is it more important to have a correctly tuned healing mechanic, or do you want to drill down on a satisfying version of the potential self-wound? Both of those are tough in the faction you’re designing for, as they already have a mechanism for punishing failed attacks.

I think your edited version reads well, though.
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