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Old August 29th, 2009, 12:05 PM
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Question Reduce Cost of Weaker Units

Hello there,

My wife and I are brand new players to the game. We were looking to expand and have read several great threads here in this forum such as this one which rates each unit.

Now, several units, according to this thread, are rated poorly, which would be a detriment for us to get those expansions. My first thought was if we liked the look/feel of a low rated expansion, reducing the cost of the unit by 10, 20, or 30 percent would rise it up to the top of the rating chart. Is there anything horribly detrimental with this?

I know I can house rule to my hearts content. I know the ratings were the opinion of just one player. I know different units synergize or come into their own in special situations. I know you can only fit so many in their starting zones.

I am wondering if reducing the cost to bring a sub-par unit up in it's "value" is a good idea so we would go out and get some of these weaker expansions? Is this a common practice? Will this have horrible effects on the game mechanics?

Thank you,

Tom / Doc4
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Old August 29th, 2009, 12:41 PM
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Re: Reduce Cost of Weaker Units

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Originally Posted by Doc4 View Post
Hello there,

My wife and I are brand new players to the game. We were looking to expand and have read several great threads here in this forum such as this one which rates each unit.

Now, several units, according to this thread, are rated poorly, which would be a detriment for us to get those expansions. My first thought was if we liked the look/feel of a low rated expansion, reducing the cost of the unit by 10, 20, or 30 percent would rise it up to the top of the rating chart. Is there anything horribly detrimental with this?

I know I can house rule to my hearts content. I know the ratings were the opinion of just one player. I know different units synergize or come into their own in special situations. I know you can only fit so many in their starting zones.

I am wondering if reducing the cost to bring a sub-par unit up in it's "value" is a good idea so we would go out and get some of these weaker expansions? Is this a common practice? Will this have horrible effects on the game mechanics?

Thank you,

Tom / Doc4
Don't worry about a units rating when you are just getting into the game. Ratings are based solely on tournament worthiness and not on their fun factor. Some of the most interesting units in Heroscape are not really tournament worthy. You would be doing yourself a great disservice by not checking them out. Besides you will eventually want everything anyway so you should always stick with the primary rule of purchasing Scape: When you see Scape, buy Scape (you may not see the pack again).

I wouldn't mess with their point totals even in casual games. One of Heroscapes greatest strengths is that the units are all closely balanced via their point cost. Some day if you were to go to a tournament, your perceptions of the relative usefullness of units would be distorted due to the changed point values you use at home.



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Old August 29th, 2009, 12:51 PM
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Re: Reduce Cost of Weaker Units

Just have fun with it man. Don't let some pontificator with a keyboard ruin your good times. Try the units out first before you change any rules. I've been playing for 2 years and I've never house-ruled a single thing.

It is a matter of public record that the guy who does those power rankings kicks puppies and drools while he's awake.

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(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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Old August 29th, 2009, 01:10 PM
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Re: Reduce Cost of Weaker Units

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Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
Just have fun with it man. Don't let some pontificator with a keyboard ruin your good times. Try the units out first before you change any rules. I've been playing for 2 years and I've never house-ruled a single thing.

It is a matter of public record that the guy who does those power rankings kicks puppies and drools while he's awake.
Serious, make up your own mind about a unit. Buy them all since they all are fun. I really like the Dzuh-Teh and they are not the best unit. All the different powers and gameplay quirks available make the game interesting so like Jexik said, give every one a shot!
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Old August 29th, 2009, 02:07 PM
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Re: Reduce Cost of Weaker Units

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Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
It is a matter of public record that the guy who does those power rankings kicks puppies and drools while he's awake.
Hang on a minute, aren't you...

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No matter your feelings towards D&D, it has divided us.
Something tells me that the cancellation, though tragic, may indeed mend that divide...
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Old August 29th, 2009, 02:18 PM
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Re: Reduce Cost of Weaker Units

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Quote:
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It is a matter of public record that the guy who does those power rankings kicks puppies and drools while he's awake.
Hang on a minute, aren't you...
Joking? Yeah.

My goal isn't to decrease the value of certain heroscape packs. If you take anything away from the power rankings, know that even in a very specific environment (tournaments), the value of figures is constantly in flux. Three months ago, Spartacus was a D. Now he's a B+. Even though not that many units were released in the last year, the value of Braxas, Heavy Gruts, and Vipers seemingly increased.

See scape; buy scape.

Quote:
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(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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Old August 29th, 2009, 02:57 PM
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Re: Reduce Cost of Weaker Units

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Originally Posted by Jexik View Post

See scape; buy scape.
That is very true. Many a times when I started out with Scape I would see packs and I would "I dont really need these right now, I will get them later maybe"

Just to find that when 'later' happened those packs are no longer available. So far the list of things I missed out on because of that are...

Volcano Exapansion
All the flagbearers
Zombies
All wave 7 Commons.

Yeah, now those are my Scape Regrets.

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Old August 29th, 2009, 03:11 PM
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Re: Reduce Cost of Weaker Units

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It is a matter of public record that the guy who does those power rankings kicks puppies and drools while he's awake.

To the Title Advocacy Thread!!!!!

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  #9  
Old August 29th, 2009, 07:00 PM
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Re: Reduce Cost of Weaker Units

Doc,
I agree with the opinions of several of the previous posters that every unit is worth a try at least once, and that units that aren't very competitive can still be fun to play.

However, if you are like me, you probably wish that Heroscape units were more similar to each other in terms of their overall value and competitiveness. As well-balanced as Heroscape is, there is unfortunately a small handful of units at the top-tier of competitiveness that outshine the others consistently. At the same time, there is a set of units that is nigh impossible to play with competitively.

To encourage a more level playing field, more diversity of unit choice and army construction, and an overall more balanced game, my group of friends and I chose to do a massive overhaul of the entire collection of Heroscape units. This included everything from altering point costs, changing stats and abilities, and even modifying personalities, classes, and sizes - basically, we made whatever we thought was the most reasonable and appropriate change to balance the unit in question.

I realize this is a level of customization that most people want nothing to do with, but the point is that you should do whatever will bring you the most enjoyment out of the game. Modifying the point costs of units is a very simple approach to evening the playing field, but it is sort of like trying to solve homelessness by giving homeless people hamburgers once in a while - it helps, but it doesn't really fix the problem.

If you plan on playing HS tournaments or with a gaming group that is outside your immediate group of friends, I would advise that you just learn to be content with the official set of figures and only purchase the ones that you think you would use at least semi-regularly.

But if you plan on enjoying the game at home with the same group of people every time, I say make house-rules to help balance the game to your hearts content.

If you're interested in the customization that my group and I have done to the set of units that we play with, you can check out the link in my signature.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 08:48 PM
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Re: Reduce Cost of Weaker Units

The seemingly large gap between A and F isn't too big, in fact. All Heroscape units are priced somewhat consistently.
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Old August 29th, 2009, 09:26 PM
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Re: Reduce Cost of Weaker Units

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The seemingly large gap between A and F isn't too big, in fact. All Heroscape units are priced somewhat consistently.
Emphasis mine...
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Old August 29th, 2009, 10:32 PM
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Re: Reduce Cost of Weaker Units

I came to HS from a DnD background, which, to my circle, is a game whre house-ruling is a basic function of enjoyment. I initially brought this mind set to HS. Many of my early posts were questions on how to "fix" certain rules and units that I didn't like. Once I got a few games under my belt I realized that none of these fixes were needed. If you're playing casually almost every unit is well balanced enough to play competitively. This doesn't hold true if you're attanding national tourneys, but it sounds like that's still a ways away for you.

So in summary, I suggest playing HS as-is for a few months before considering any major revamps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rouby44 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Migraine View Post
The seemingly large gap between A and F isn't too big, in fact. All Heroscape units are priced somewhat consistently.
Emphasis mine...
Well, we all know how you feel.

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