Sherman's Lord of the Rings customs - Balin's Tomb

[Good Pig]

Hey Sherman, I noticed while nosing around in your photobucket album you've got some cards for Marvel/DC stuff not linked to in your other threads. Cars, Trucks, Small Ruins, Dividers, etc as well as rules for throwing objects.

Would you consider adding those to the links in your Marvel/DC threads and talking about what you're using for the Destructible Objects? How you arrived your rule set for throwing? If it's still being tweaked, etc?

Thanks!

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by Johngee

I've seen Pete's work and downloaded the files and would love to participate in an epic LotR scenario like this (maybe multi-player?). Please keep in in the "LO^OP" of the planning phase, since it may inspire me to make an Unexpected Journey to the Outer Rim of Liny.

I certainly will keep you in the loop - I'll discuss it with Grishnakh and the others later this month and we'll try and schedule it at a time that's good for as many of us as possible.

Originally Posted by Good Pig

Hey Sherman, I noticed while nosing around in your photobucket album you've got some cards for Marvel/DC stuff not linked to in your other threads. Cars, Trucks, Small Ruins, Dividers, etc as well as rules for throwing objects.

Would you consider adding those to the links in your Marvel/DC threads and talking about what you're using for the Destructible Objects? How you arrived your rule set for throwing? If it's still being tweaked, etc?

Thanks!

Sure, I'll post those in my superhero threads soon. I often upload my works in progress to my albums because it helps me to see a finished looking product when I'm designing; I've only gotten in a handful of games testing those rules, but I'm feeling good enough about them that I suppose I can post them earlier than usual.

[Grishnakh]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

I certainly will keep you in the loop - I'll discuss it with Grishnakh and the others later this month and we'll try and schedule it at a time that's good for as many of us as possible.

I'm up for some LotR gaming! Perhaps for our March game day? Or April? Do we need to dust off some cards? Last time we combined your cards with a couple of mine.

[Grishnakh]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

Sure, I'll post those in my superhero threads soon. I often upload my works in progress to my albums because it helps me to see a finished looking product when I'm designing; I've only gotten in a handful of games testing those rules, but I'm feeling good enough about them that I suppose I can post them earlier than usual.

If I'm remembering correctly we sort of used them at our last game day. Didn't you sorta, kinda of base them on my ITF rules? If so then they should work fine. By now my rules have been so thoroughly play tested that there isn't any issue with them. If you need to play test what you've done some more bring them to a monthly meeting and we'll give them a trail run. We'll just need to have more objects on the board to use than last time around.

[Grishnakh]

And by the way, anymore Star Wars customs? I like the simplicity of the two cards you've posted!

[Good Pig]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

Sure, I'll post those in my superhero threads soon. I often upload my works in progress to my albums because it helps me to see a finished looking product when I'm designing; I've only gotten in a handful of games testing those rules, but I'm feeling good enough about them that I suppose I can post them earlier than usual.

Great, thanks!

I've been contemplating coming up with some rules of my own, and I usually arrive at the conclusion that I like the work you do better any how. It feels like it really embodies the spirit of the original Heroscape designs. Taking a genre of gaming (miniatures) that is typically steeped in rules, charts and fiddliness and streamlining it until only the essentials are left and so it's kept accessible for a lot of people (like myself and friends) that cringe when thinking about painting hundreds of minis or using rulers to move pieces around on a board. No offense to any other designers that prefer more theme/role playing/simulation added in but I think it's always a matter of trade-offs. The more you try to create some hyper realistic situation using game rules the more rules you end up adding on (burdening the player's memory). In my own experience I think I've come full circle. I remember at one point looking down on the original Heroscape designs and thinking they were 'too basic' to use any more after having dove head first into customs and more 'advanced' designs. Ironically this was when I was no longer actually playing the game and I kind of forgot what Heroscape was all about, fun and accessibility. It took me playing a few games with Krug, Airborne Elite, Marro, etc to help me remember. I love the fact that your designs can mix and match figures from any genre (LOTR, SW, Marvel) into a single army and they all remain individually useful without having to be paired in a faction specific setting.

Some thoughts on throwing rules:
- I noticed first off how you made the incentive for smash attacks re-rolling attack dice that did not show skulls vs just adding more dice. Thought this was an interesting choice and was trying to think through the pros and cons of each.
- Being able to move while carrying an object as well frees up more options instead of keeping a Hero with SS tied to a particular space.
- Using the life value to the ability of a figure to lift, determine throw distance of an object, and damage output seemed intriguing. Was wondering if you had to make any compromises with this decision? A figure you previously designed with low life / high defense was gimped a bit, etc.
- Have you found tracking life on D.O.'s to be a pain in the butt? Especially when there is multiple cars on a battlefield? Any other creative ways to doing this if so? Noticed Grishnak (and also C3G) made a lot of things with a high defense value and 1 life to avoid keeping track altogether on these common objects that would be available in multiples.

Sorry for the threadjack. In summary just wanted to thank you for the designs you post and let you know it's appreciated.

P.S. Would love to see some more Star Wars designs too.

[Sherman Davies]

Wow, thanks - I've never gone and put down in so many words my design philosophy and how much it draws from my love and appreciation for Heroscape's amazingly accessible yet deep game system, and now I never have to, 'cause you've done it for me.

Originally Posted by Good Pig

In my own experience I think I've come full circle. I remember at one point looking down on the original Heroscape designs and thinking they were 'too basic' to use any more after having dove head first into customs and more 'advanced' designs. Ironically this was when I was no longer actually playing the game and I kind of forgot what Heroscape was all about, fun and accessibility. It took me playing a few games with Krug, Airborne Elite, Marro, etc to help me remember.

Yeah, I went through a similar evolution as a gamer years ago, before I ever stumbled across Heroscape, though to be fair I'm guessing I'm a little older than you. My first experience with RPGs was a game some of my high school buddies wanted to try called Rifts, and I recall how much more time we spent arguing about how the rules worked than we did actually playing the game. Ditto for when a friend tried to get me into Games Workshop stuff. At some point I realized I just wanted to get together with friends, play a game and have fun, and for me that's a lot easier to do with a system that doesn't require anyone stopping to look through a rulebook or search for FAQs.

Originally Posted by Good Pig

I noticed first off how you made the incentive for smash attacks re-rolling attack dice that did not show skulls vs just adding more dice. Thought this was an interesting choice and was trying to think through the pros and cons of each.

I had a couple of reasons for doing it the way I did. First and foremost, it was weaker than adding dice would've been, and so in theory would impact the game less. Making the rule have a light touch was important to me, because the more useful using objects was, the more the game would focus on that action, and the less it would feel like Heroscape. It's the same thing I was trying for with my Knockback rule - design a mechanic that adds flavor 80% of the time, and is tactically useful the other 20%. The second reason I avoided having the rule add dice was just in case I ever designed a Super Strength character with Deadly Strike.

Originally Posted by Good Pig

Using the life value to the ability of a figure to lift, determine throw distance of an object, and damage output seemed intriguing. Was wondering if you had to make any compromises with this decision? A figure you previously designed with low life / high defense was gimped a bit, etc.

When I was brainstorming the rule, I went through my cards to see if anyone would feel retroactively weaker than he should be due to the rule, and the only one that popped out at me was Captain Britain. I haven't really been bothered enough by that to update him, plus he hasn't hit the table in over a year now anyway. Maybe one of these days...

Originally Posted by Good Pig

Have you found tracking life on D.O.'s to be a pain in the butt? Especially when there is multiple cars on a battlefield?

P.S. Would love to see some more Star Wars designs too.

Like I said, I've only tried the Use Object rules a handful of times, so it hasn't become an issue yet, but if it does I plan on treating them like Uncommon Heroes, with a separate card for each object. Not to mention, I don't own very many cars, trucks, etc... and I probably wouldn't litter my games with a ton of them even if I did.

As for more Star Wars stuff, I'll have to see what the kids got for Christmas. I should know by the weekend if they have requests for their Uncle Sherman.

[Sir Heroscape]

Great job on the LOTR customs, I like the specials you've come up with, I feel like they go well with the personalities of the characters. I would like to know what set those minis are from? because I've seen a lot of different minis for LOTR and I think I like these the most!

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by adoney

I would like to know what set those minis are from? because I've seen a lot of different minis for LOTR and I think I like these the most!

The minis are from the Lord of the Rings: Combat Hex Tradeable Miniatures Game, an out of print game that came out around the time the movies were released. The only real online source for these minis that I know of is an ebay store called Big Coin Collectibles.

[Good Pig]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

The minis are from the Lord of the Rings: Combat Hex Tradeable Miniatures Game, an out of print game that came out around the time the movies were released. The only real online source for these minis that I know of is an ebay store called Big Coin Collectibles.

Those older minis do look really cool. A little bigger and chunkier (similar to Heroscape) than the Heroclix. I had a hard time finding some or justifying the cost of other ones and ended up getting the Heroclix minis instead.

[Good Pig]

Not sure how old your friends kids are that are into LEGO, but I saw miniature Despicable Me Minions the other day at Walmart and realized they would be perfect for Heroscape. Size wise they are maybe about half the size of a standard Heroscape figure.

Maybe a common squad of 4 to fit the 8 pack they come in?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Minions-8-...igure/43389833

[KingZombie]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

The minis are from the Lord of the Rings: Combat Hex Tradeable Miniatures Game, an out of print game that came out around the time the movies were released. The only real online source for these minis that I know of is an ebay store called Big Coin Collectibles.

Thanks for the heads up on Big-Coin-Collectibles! You made them very happy as I just went and bought a ton.

I was looking for those figs after seeing your cards but didn't find them. Those combined with my clix figs and I will probably have too many.