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  #889  
Old August 14th, 2015, 10:42 AM
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Re: Justice League Design *Brainstorming* (Finalizing Direct

I suppose do whatever you like. I thought this was supposed to be a Justice League synergy, but that direction feels more like "different factions/groups within the Justice League". It's not that I don't see the idea and theme benefit from it, or that I'm completely against it, but for the complaint to be "I don't want to have to draft X in order to get Y", and "why doesn't A work with B"...I don't think those exactly help here. In the first instance, now you have to draft Batman or Superman in order to even play Martian Manhunter. In the 2nd instance, you're simply changing it from Justice League centered, to small groupings within the Justice League such as "Trinity" "Brave and Bold" etc.

It is what it is. If you want to make Martian Manhutner generic benefits and required to have Superman or Batman all of the time, then I guess that's what will happen.
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  #890  
Old August 14th, 2015, 10:43 AM
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Re: Justice League Design *Brainstorming* (Finalizing Direct

The changes I'm proposing would be very limited, but targeting to better selling the theme for those who don't see it, Sock. Basically like this:

Martian Manhunter 2.0:
Spoiler Alert!



Batman 3.0:
Spoiler Alert!


Then you could add a Superman 3.0 with a Trinity power to get Champions in there.

Edit: Sock, see how little I actually changed in the above.

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  #891  
Old August 14th, 2015, 10:47 AM
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Re: Justice League Design *Brainstorming* (Finalizing Direct

Honestly, though, I like what we currently have, so if this suggestion doesn't do anything to win any hearts or minds of those highly against what we're doing, I'm just fine staying the course. Just trying to look for compromises and address concerns rather than argue around and around.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #892  
Old August 14th, 2015, 10:47 AM
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Re: Justice League Design *Brainstorming* (Finalizing Direct

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
The changes I'm proposing would be very limited, but targeting to better selling the theme for those who don't see it, Sock. Basically like this:

Martian Manhunter 2.0:
Spoiler Alert!



Batman 3.0:
Spoiler Alert!


Then you could add a Superman 3.0 with a Trinity power to get Champions in there.

Edit: Sock, see how little I actually changed in the above.
You have King on both...I'd change one to Warriors.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #893  
Old August 14th, 2015, 10:49 AM
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Re: Justice League Design *Brainstorming* (Finalizing Direct

Good call, japes. I forgot that Warriors can represent Aquaman as well. Batman 3.0 is the logical choice there. I'll edit the above post.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #894  
Old August 14th, 2015, 10:52 AM
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Re: Justice League Design *Brainstorming* (Finalizing Direct

I'm fine with that. It was this statement I didn't agree with: "or he could just have a support power that doesn't add anyone, but boosts those who already have markers (though this makes him tough to play alone)." Because that's not solving anything, it'd only feel like we're re-organizing classes listed, and reworking it so that just Superman and Batman are hubs, Martian Manhunter requiring one of them to even be useful(otherwise ditch his marker burn altogether, which meant the +3 was gone), and then Cyborg being the open ended one.

But I'm fine with that layout.
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  #895  
Old August 14th, 2015, 10:53 AM
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Re: Justice League Design *Brainstorming* (Finalizing Direct

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie View Post
the JL is like the hall of fame of Superheroing. They don't just let anyone in. People like Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Wonderman, and Vision never would have had a shot to get in.
Obviously your knowledge trumps mine by a wide margin, but I question this. Vision is pretty hard core, and are Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver really less qualified than Zatanna and Flash? And I never liked Wonder Man, but he was both famous and powerful.

Here's YK's list from before:
Spoiler Alert!
Just to my eyes, it does not look that exclusive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock View Post
Cyborg came into the group much later in the comics, so his enrollment covers other one offs, outlyers, and temporary members etc.
I want to be clear on this point: if you guys feel that Cyborg's unrestricted option is thematic and important, that's one thing. But if Cyborg's unrestricted option is being done as a concession to people like me, then please don't do it. If I had to choose between fully class-restricted marker burn, and marker burn that's class-restricted with one unrestricted exception, I'd choose fully restricted.

I explained my rationale for this in my last post, but to summarize:
  • Adding one open-ended option does not address any of the motivations I (or others) have for an open-ended system.
  • I get the thematic reasons you are doing a class-based system, but to my eye, having one unrestricted option ruins that theme, because it allows all the absurd unthematic options right back in.

So you lose the thematic linkage of heroes that you guys are working so hard to get, while retaining all the cumbersome mechanics of the class-restricted system. It's the worst of both worlds.

Last edited by dok; August 14th, 2015 at 11:30 AM. Reason: Added link to previous post since it's been buried 2 pages back in half a day
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  #896  
Old August 14th, 2015, 10:56 AM
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Re: Justice League Design *Brainstorming* (Finalizing Direct

To Sock: Yeah, I think what I posted last is a much better approach. Even when I posted what you quoted there, I didn't feel it was ideal. Just working through options as I was posting.

Even if folks take objection to the name "Justice League Markers" with the above ("But Superman working in the Trinity isn't working with the Justice League, waaah"), we can just call them "Justice Markers."

Like you, I don't care about having "Justice League" in name. I want it in play. I want powers that encourage and reward playing iconic Justice League members together, rather than powers that encourage and reward playing anyone and everyone together but have the Justice League name pasted onto them.

Like you, I am not a cat.

To dok: I'm totally fine with losing the open-ended synergy on Cyborg if it doesn't gain us any ground with those not liking this direction. Tough call, though, because some Heroes did seem to support it, and it does behoove us to stay in their good graces.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #897  
Old August 14th, 2015, 11:01 AM
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Re: Justice League Design *Brainstorming* (Finalizing Direct

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Honestly, though, I like what we currently have, so if this suggestion doesn't do anything to win any hearts or minds of those highly against what we're doing, I'm just fine staying the course. Just trying to look for compromises and address concerns rather than argue around and around.
I am starting to come around to this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Van Ness View Post
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  #898  
Old August 14th, 2015, 11:10 AM
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Re: Justice League Design *Brainstorming* (Finalizing Direct

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Honestly, though, I like what we currently have, so if this suggestion doesn't do anything to win any hearts or minds of those highly against what we're doing, I'm just fine staying the course. Just trying to look for compromises and address concerns rather than argue around and around.
I am starting to come around to this.
Was the Trinity/Brave and Bold/Justice League Unlimited tweak specifically helpful? Is it that last version that I posted that you're most liking?

Either way, good to know our efforts haven't been completely in vain ....

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #899  
Old August 14th, 2015, 11:13 AM
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Re: Justice League Design *Brainstorming* (Finalizing Direct

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Honestly, though, I like what we currently have, so if this suggestion doesn't do anything to win any hearts or minds of those highly against what we're doing, I'm just fine staying the course. Just trying to look for compromises and address concerns rather than argue around and around.
I am starting to come around to this.
Was the Trinity/Brave and Bold/Justice League Unlimited tweak specifically helpful? Is it that last version that I posted that you're most liking?

Either way, good to know our efforts haven't been completely in vain ....
Yes, those groupings make the most sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Craig Van Ness View Post
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  #900  
Old August 14th, 2015, 11:13 AM
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Re: Justice League Design *Brainstorming* (Finalizing Direct

Sock and Bats, I realize that the two of you are pedal to the metal and are posting 8-10 times a day and want this done now now now, and I appreciate that. But I think a couple days to continue the dialog that is currently happening is reasonable. I would, for instance, be pretty interested in hearing Spidey's response to what I posted above, which might not come for a day or two. Having more input from someone who knows the Justice League really well but hasn't become super-invested in any direction laid out here is pretty important, I think.

I'd also be interested to hear a response from one or both of you on the point I made above w.r.t. Cyborg. Is the unrestricted marker he has an effort at compromise? Because if it is, please take it out. Having that in there just means you may end up with Karnilla or Gorgon or Darkseid as a Justice League member, which seems to work against everything you guys are pushing for.
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