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  #6361  
Old August 2nd, 2019, 02:19 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

personally I'd rather have Ambershard than 2 beakface rogues. while evasive is nice hide in the darkness and 2 more "life" gives him more staying power. 4 base attack is also much more reliable.


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  #6362  
Old August 13th, 2019, 04:55 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

With the backlog continuing to grow, we have decided to bump up to eight active Judges. wriggz is being brought back onboard to serve as our eighth. Welcome back!
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  #6363  
Old August 13th, 2019, 05:00 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I for one am very excited to have wriggz back. Having him pop in a month ago and finish his review of Rujin was a very welcome surprise, and it'll be good to have him contributing regularly and officially again.

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  #6364  
Old August 13th, 2019, 05:02 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Thanks I'm glad to be still on board. looks like some really awesome stuff. looking to throw an approval on the greats and some valuable feedback on the others.


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  #6365  
Old August 13th, 2019, 11:54 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Masha Shingai by @Astroking112

Samurai have long been a staple of Heroscape, and Demons have long been a staple of Samurai lore. Will Masha be the one to staple these staples together?

Balance

Mashaís big draw is his attack reduction, and playing with attack reduction is playing with fire. What makes Mashaís power so different from existing attack reduction powers is that it applies to all figures within a 4-space radius. Akumaken and the Skull Demon, the two figures that already play in this space, and both have a narrow range of effect: Akumaken only works on adjacent figures, and the Skull Demon only on figures directly attacking it. Still, for a single-attacking figure that needs activations to trigger the aura, 110 points is a relatively hefty cost.

As far as price point, Mashaís stats looks quite similar to our last inductee Uzog, and he has some support capabilities just as Uzog does.

Theme

I think this design is wonderfully thematic. Einar is the right call for general, in my opinion, and the powers and stats complement the mini nicely.

Creativity

Awakened Terror is quite a creative way to boost the Samurai by helping to trigger their Counter Strike, and Fiery Retribution is also a creative way to help the Samurai against their archnemesis, figures with range. I also very much appreciate the limits put on Awakened Terror. Itís simple, thematic, and restrained.

Playability

What do you know, I played Masha with Samurai quite a lot while testing him. I tried mixing and matching the unique squads, using Kaemon Awa, and tossing in Tomoe Gozen for good measure. Most of the time I added Raelin as well, since she helps the Samurai have some extra fearsome defenses.

I had three categories I was curious to see Masha armies against: Low attack long range armies (i.e. Aubriens, M-43s), short range armies (i.e. Teeth of the Makwa, Stingers), and melee armies (i.e. Blade Gruts, Greenscales).

Against long range armies, I was worried that Masha would overwhelm by pushing forward and forcing opponents to either abandon high ground or be stuck with low attacks once Masha got within range. In practice, this didnít really happen. Even attacks of 2 and 3 can get through Mashaís defense if you have enough of them, and the strategy I was concerned about doesnít make staying in Raelinís aura very feasible. Itís hard to set up for Fiery Retribution, too, because that often puts those ranged figures out of your Samuraiís threat range.

Against short ranged armies, Masha is scary because his powers can both come into effect. Itís a screwed if you do, screwed if you donít situation: Youíre forced into Mashaís aura, where your attack is lowered, and then whenever you do break through you have a pretty good shot of dying. Great, huh? This really didnít happen as much as I thought either. Engaging Masha enables you to attack him without risking any counter damage, and itís worth taking the risk of a few Fiery Retributions here or there to take out a squad figure or put an extra wound on Masha. The Samurai squads canít block you from engaging Masha either, because that sets them up to be attacked from outside the aura. These short range figures have high attack for the most part, and itís not the end of the world to lose 1 die when attacking Mashaís (or Raelinís) 3 defense.

Against melee armies, my concern was that Masha would force figures to make low percentage attacks against Samurai and just die in droves. Again, this didnít really come up as I was worried it would. One of the things that new players often will forget in Heroscape is that they donít need to take every opportunity possible. This is very true when playing against a Masha army. If you throw endless mindless attacks against 5-7 defense Samurai with 3 attack, you deserve to lose. Instead, a melee opponent to Masha should focus on Masha first, even forgoing attacks to develop more figures. If you do that, Masha falls quickly enough.

All three scenarios had one common thread that I thought Iíd mention seperately: losing initiative is killer for a Masha army. When that happens, all the Samurai are sitting there, often in non-ideal positions, waiting to get shot down. Same thing when Masha dies: it often leaves the Samurai player in a lurch.

Summary

There were several scenarios I was worried about in my Masha testing, but none of those scenarios really turned out to be very problematic. Instead, I had the opposite problem. It never felt like Masha could be the whole package. For all the intimidating powers on his card, he came across a little too flat, and never seemed to make the Samurai engine go like it was supposed to.

I vote to induct Masha Shingai into the Soldiers of Valhalla

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  #6366  
Old August 14th, 2019, 02:28 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
It never felt like Masha could be the whole package. For all the intimidating powers on his card, he came across a little too flat, and never seemed to make the Samurai engine go like it was supposed to.
Do you mind elaborating a little bit on how he fell flat for you? The review preceding this read more positive than negative to me, so I'm not sure if you're referring to him not tying the Samurai together well enough on his own or if the design itself didn't feel cohesive to you. I'd just like to get a clearer idea of what you viewed were the faults in case I need to work on another submission down the line.
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  #6367  
Old August 14th, 2019, 05:38 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

My understanding of what Superfrog said is:
Quote:
Masha's abilities on paper sounded impressive. It was easy to think he would be quite powerful. When this assumed power was nowhere to be seen, the whole design became very underwhelming, and unimpressive. Ultimately Masha didn't really serve any of roles envisioned. Masha doesn't appear to do anything significant.
I can extrapolate more, but my take could also be very wrong. That's just how I understood it.
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  #6368  
Old August 14th, 2019, 10:41 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
It never felt like Masha could be the whole package. For all the intimidating powers on his card, he came across a little too flat, and never seemed to make the Samurai engine go like it was supposed to.
Do you mind elaborating a little bit on how he fell flat for you? The review preceding this read more positive than negative to me, so I'm not sure if you're referring to him not tying the Samurai together well enough on his own or if the design itself didn't feel cohesive to you. I'd just like to get a clearer idea of what you viewed were the faults in case I need to work on another submission down the line.
Yeah, fair question. I guess I never felt that Masha added anything to a Samurai army in the aggregate. They still were imposing against melee, would die against range, and could throw high attack dice now and then. Masha tried to address those things, but I never had a game where he had a sizable impact on the game. Maybe he got one kill with Fiery Retribution, and maybe he slowed down his own death, but for whatever reason I didn't feel the army firing on all cylinders.

I'm not sure what exactly I'd change, but I'd maybe consider 6 life or losing the adjacency requirement somehow.

customs/maps/c3v/sov

how to:
make a card/post your maps

google sheets:
ohs link generator/attack outcomes

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  #6369  
Old August 14th, 2019, 09:47 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Yeah, fair question. I guess I never felt that Masha added anything to a Samurai army in the aggregate. They still were imposing against melee, would die against range, and could throw high attack dice now and then. Masha tried to address those things, but I never had a game where he had a sizable impact on the game. Maybe he got one kill with Fiery Retribution, and maybe he slowed down his own death, but for whatever reason I didn't feel the army firing on all cylinders.

I'm not sure what exactly I'd change, but I'd maybe consider 6 life or losing the adjacency requirement somehow.
Thanks for the explanation. I can see where you're coming from; Masha definitely doesn't fix all of the Samurai's problems, and he has his fair share of weaknesses built in. Both were intentional, but they do lead to him largely maintaining the army's weaknesses and core playstyle.

I'd be very hesitant to drop the adjacency requirement on Fiery Retribution because it makes playing him with Raelin significantly easier and more rewarding, and it doesn't sound to me like 6 life will fundamentally fix the issue you're having, but I'll keep that feedback in mind if I need to make any changes. I'm happy with how the current iteration has been performing, so I'll save any such ideas for workshopping if he eventually fails.
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