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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #25  
Old January 21st, 2009, 02:17 PM
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Re: Cookie Cutter Army Discussion and Tiers

Thanks for the input, coastal guys.

As for the 'luck' to beat better players idea, that was one of the appealing aspects to me about Red Wings of Death for GenCon. 3x Minions + Zelrig could have been a deadly force to deal with in Day 2. It doesn't have much synergy, but it kills Q9 and Mass quickly. What more do you need?

I just didn't like the lack of control I felt with the dice even when I felt I was making the 'right' decisions. This was one army that I didn't share outside of a few people I knew, and chickened out of playing.

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Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #26  
Old January 21st, 2009, 06:35 PM
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Re: Cookie Cutter Army Discussion and Tiers

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Originally Posted by clancampbell View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onacara View Post
Onacara's "Kiss my ass, 4th Mass"



I will be playing this army at TempleCon during pick-up games so anyone who is coming wants to take a crack at knocking them out...BRING IT!!!!
How do you deal with Zelrig with that army? I see lots of toasted redcoats.

Actually the best way to do it is to go right after Zelrig...you use a squad as sacrifical pawns to engage Zelrig so he cannot Majestic Fire you and then fire and bayonet away.
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  #27  
Old January 21st, 2009, 10:03 PM
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Re: Cookie Cutter Army Discussion and Tiers

I don't see Blade Gruts. They really are as good as, if not better than several of the other tier 2 armies you listed. Venoc Vipers? Marro Drones? Blade gruts can handle them. They have even less durability than heavy gruts, but they are deceptively maneuverable.

3x Blade Gruts 120
Grimnak 240
Nerak 290

That is a decent core and leave plenty of room for your flavor of dragon.
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  #28  
Old January 22nd, 2009, 12:20 AM
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Re: Cookie Cutter Army Discussion and Tiers

I thought about Blade Gruts. I know it's odd, but I think they're significantly worse than the Heavy Gruts in today's tournaments. When there's such a clear alternative in so many of these tier 2 armies, I don't know when I'd say, "it's Blade Grut time!"

1. Point totals are outpacing hex limits, so you can't get the right number of them out there. If they've got 5x Mass, and you've got 4 or 5x Blade Gruts, you're in trouble.

2. Unless you're in a situation where the extra move matters (which I could probably see people making the case for), Heavy Gruts have much better output from their turns. 4 attacks of 3 > 4 attacks of 2.

3. One thing I've been stressing pretty often in this and my efficiency article is the importance of high defense. Just as the Knights' 4 defense and only 4 move without disengage > 5 move with disengage and 3 defense in the heavy gruts, the Blade Gruts are tough to justify, even with their low cost. Point cost doesn't matter if you die before you can engage your foe.

Show me a Blade Grut army or two at least taking top 50% (or even top 2/3) in a couple tournaments and I'll reconsider. If people don't even bring them to tournaments, that tells you a lot, I think. I've faced DŁnd more often than I've faced Blade Gruts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #29  
Old January 22nd, 2009, 07:06 AM
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Re: Cookie Cutter Army Discussion and Tiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik View Post

Unknown Guy played this and got 2nd at NHSD 2007 in Dallas of all places, losing only to Revdyer's Sentinels 'n Mass
5x Zombies 300
2x Shades of Bleakwoode

How cool is that?
FYI, "unknown guy" is Aahzmandius. This was the first NHSD even that I attended and it was awesome to see the zombies make it to the championship. I actually watched a lot of Aahz's matches that day (when I had time), he's a great player who brings fun and cool armies to the events. This year he had Greeks I believe at NHSD.

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  #30  
Old January 22nd, 2009, 07:20 AM
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Re: Cookie Cutter Army Discussion and Tiers

Also, I think Mechabeast has a tourney report somewhere with Zombies. I believe he played Zombies x5, Krav, Raelin, Marcu at 500 points and took 4th out of 18 or something. His only loss was to Q9 on a snow map, where all snow and ice was heavy. I think it was the tourney where I played Sudema - I wonder what Tier she's in?

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  #31  
Old January 22nd, 2009, 10:07 AM
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Re: Cookie Cutter Army Discussion and Tiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dignan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik View Post

Unknown Guy played this and got 2nd at NHSD 2007 in Dallas of all places, losing only to Revdyer's Sentinels 'n Mass
5x Zombies 300
2x Shades of Bleakwoode

How cool is that?
FYI, "unknown guy" is Aahzmandius. This was the first NHSD even that I attended and it was awesome to see the zombies make it to the championship. I actually watched a lot of Aahz's matches that day (when I had time), he's a great player who brings fun and cool armies to the events. This year he had Greeks I believe at NHSD.
Thanks, Dignan. I should have showed him more respect and looked it up. It's fixed now. I remember being very impressed by his performance with that army. I think he beat Rˇchean's 5x Stingers/2x Rats/Kaemon, right?

It's probably also worth noting that prior to that tourney, Sentinels were a mere B- in the power rankings. Revdyer's performances there and at GenCon convinced spider to bump them up to B+.

Which is why it's good to experiment. But Sudema?

Tier 11


This one goes to eleven
Runa 120
Sudema 260
Deadeye Dan 320
Hatamoto Taro 450

It would take an act of god to win a game with this, even in a Win-A-Wave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #32  
Old January 22nd, 2009, 10:34 AM
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Re: Cookie Cutter Army Discussion and Tiers

Tier Eleven

Add DW7K for the WIN!
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  #33  
Old January 22nd, 2009, 11:46 AM
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Re: Cookie Cutter Army Discussion and Tiers

All right, here is the army I used for NHSD:

3x Blade gruts 120
Grimnak 240
Nerak 290
Charos 500

I went 3-2 and placed 11/23. That is in the top 50%. My battle report is here.

I really think the key with Blade Gruts is not using piles and piles of them. Since they are only 40pts a squad, one can add a dragon and still have quite a few Blade Gruts. They still are as good as some of the other tier 2 armies like Venoc Vipers and Marro Drones. True, the Blades do not have high attack, but with bonding they can get a lot of attacks in. Using a dragon for more power is important in Blade Grut armies.

I think that Blade Gruts aren't appearing in more tournaments because Heavy Gruts have almost completely overshadowed them, and knights are even better yet. Plus, wave 1 hasn't been re-released for a while.
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  #34  
Old January 22nd, 2009, 11:46 AM
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Re: Cookie Cutter Army Discussion and Tiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junge Roman View Post
Tier Eleven

Add DW7K for the WIN!
Don't overlook the potential of DW7K. I'm not saying he's great, but he can be competitive in the right army, and in the hands of the right player. I took him to a tourney once, went 2-1 and took 2nd place, out of 12.

For those who are curious:
Cyprien (150)
Marro Warriors (50)
Marro Drones x2 (100)
DW7K (100)
Total 400

72 tournaments. 173 - 142 - 1 overall record. 6 tournament wins.

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  #35  
Old January 22nd, 2009, 12:16 PM
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Re: Cookie Cutter Army Discussion and Tiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junge Roman View Post
Tier Eleven

Add DW7K for the WIN!
Naw, he's got a few obscure 'outside of the hex' Tier 1 applications. He's pretty much a hard counter to the Vydar Ranged army.

6x Mass 420
Deathwalker 7000 520 (25 hexes- drop him if the other guy has rats)

I thought about playing that one in the GenCon Championship last year. For about three minutes. I'm pretty sure I saw Killercactus suggest it somewhere too. (Other 4th Mass 'sideboard' options include Morsbane and Marcus at that point level).

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)

Last edited by Jexik; January 22nd, 2009 at 12:26 PM.
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  #36  
Old January 22nd, 2009, 12:38 PM
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Re: Cookie Cutter Army Discussion and Tiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik View Post
6x Mass 420
Deathwalker 7000 520 (25 hexes- drop him if the other guy has rats)
Heh. That's the thing about DW7k - put disengage on that card, and suddenly it's a playable figure. Not great or gamebreaking, but playable.
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