New HS Business Model - pg.5 Primer Set

[Oogie_Da_Bruce]

EDIT: This thread's discussion has generated different possibilities for the HeroScape business model. Different types of sets, packaging, marketing, figures, profit/loss, etc. We are discussing news way for Wizards to maximize value to the consumer at a viable price point while increasing profit margins for the game.

Consider it an excersise in the business of gaming.

How would you structure the production, releases, and distribution of Heroscape to achieve top sales AND customer satisfaction?

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There are alot of brilliant ideas in this thread (and a lot of healthy debating). So I changed the title of the thread to try and refocus the discussion. (God, I wish I had the time to dedicate an in depth analysis of the HS business model and ways to improve it, but gotta love this communitity... you all rock. And this is fun.)
Initially we were focusing on Jump Start Sets (an idea unto itself), but then the discussion brought up True Master Sets and Terrain Only Sets. Add in Boosters or any other sets, packaging, distribution, marketing, etc and that's a full on discussion about the HS business model.
The first this we need to acknowledge is that HS has different sizes of releases, Currently there are the Master Sets (bigger and lesser), the big hero release, the terrain release, the booster waves, and the exclusives (flagbearers and Con).
With this said, under this new model concept, we too can explore the different components, value and cost of each release and how they can best interact with the player and each other.
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I. The Master Set - I think the best idea is Onacara's TRUE MASTER SET. 2 ARMIES and enough terrain for them to battle comfortably. Size, Cost and Components are still up for debate.
I think 500 points a side is enough and the less terrain the better. Reduce components to 2 players, instead of 4, and stack 2's and 3's inside of 7's inside of 24's to keep package size down and minimize plastic use/petrolium/oil. No more than $40 if, with all the shaving down it can be done for $35 even better. Still everything to call a freind and say, "Hey, I got a new game, come play it with me."

II. The Jump Start Set - Two different ideas.
A. Half a master set - 500 points of a new/different themed army, half the terrain. If I get a set and you get a set we got all we need to play. Extra Dice, Markers, Glyph?
B. Army Only - Now that you got the master set, if you want a different army to play right out of the box, just grab this one or that one or that one. Also, If your friend already has HeroScape and you don't want to thrown down the extra cash for your own starter, just pick up a Jump Start Set and you can go to his house, play on his terrain and whoop his sorry but with this new Army you just got!!! Dice? Markers? Glyph? $20
C. Fully Playable Mini Set - Extremely small amount of terrain, 2 small armies (unique only).

III. Terrain Set I like the current Terrain releases.

IV. Boosters Throw them in printed cardboard to keep cost down.

V. Exclusives For Games Stores.

VI. Manufacturing Keep it as small as possible with little to no windows.

VII. Distribution Perhaps the new model will bring back large retailers.
Gamestores could get exculsives to help the little guy.

VIII. Marketing Push the build/lego angle and the new ready to battle angle.
NO BLIND PURCHASE. WYSIWYG. Create, Explore, Expand. Make it more than just a game. Make it an exprerience. Divert some of the new profits to web development (backstory) once people are invested in the heroes and villians then go with action figures or whatever.
Also, more scenarios/campaigns. Make each battle feel like it means something not just ha ha I killed you (although I like that too). Games workshop does this well. If in a national playable campaign the forces of dark crush good, the world changes to reflect it; freedom fighters can be a new unit/update the website to show the evil forces razing the capital city, etc. Web precense is a cornerstone of modern marketing... everyone's online.

IX. Sales Explain to the retailers the type of support this will be getting. Follow it up with the minimizing of box size to keep shelf needs down and hopefully the new profit margin with shine through. More scape everywhere, easier for kids to buy, should sell itself.

X. Everything Else - Expanded Terrain Rules.

-ODB , who no longer works for Mattel.
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In another thread, were were discussing the need for Master Sets to grow new Heroscape growth (and the profit margins on them). Elginb coined the term "Jump Start" Sets.

Originally Posted by Elginb

If a full-on Master Set is a money loser, it might still be interesting to have smaller "Jump-start" sets-- you know, something with a 4-6 units in the box and about the amount of terrain you see in your typical Terrain Expansion set.

Then I had an idea. What if these Jump Start Sets were more than just some figs and some terrain. More than Volcarren (with the Obsidians and the Lava), more than Tundra (with the Snowmen and Glaciers), what if they were fully formed armies with matching terrian?

Imagine a 400 point Utgar force... oh lets say Egypians. There would be a leader figure (lets say RA teh sun god), a unique squad (Ra's guards) and then 2 common squads of Egypian warriors. Then packaged with that, a handful of sand terrain and a pyramid. (OK we already have sand, but you get the idea).

These armys can be made in any fashion (all unique, all squad, half/half), the only rule is that they must be 400 points (Or 500) and be ready to play. This type of out of the box, ready to play armies, would be appealing to a new player. I like "These Guys" I'll by them (and their base). My buddy likes these guys. He buys "those guys" (and their base), we can put our terrain together and get a game going.

OR

Maybe make an army pack, like above. THEN, make a matching terrain expansion.

Again, you get the idea.

The idea is that these Jump Start sets will not only be bought by current scapers, but other gamers might be inclined to pick up 1 BOX and be able to hold their own.

Not sure how this would match up against the "Wave Releases", but I DO like the idea of making Scape as easy as possible for a new player to get into. Medium price, Maximum playability.

Please discuss idea and variations (or whatever).

Also, would you or people you know be interested in a medium sized set like this for $40? $35? $30? At what point is it too much? OR at what point do you pay so little you get so little? (I guess this is more of a question about the Army only/Terrain only vs. the Army and Terrain).

My personal vote is a full UNIQUE HERO army with included terrain about $30, then a booster with 2 differnt common squads that matched the army. That way I can pick up the ARMY/TERRAIN pack, and as many (or little) squads as I wanted.

Thanks for reading,

ODB

[Oogie_Da_Bruce]

Ooooh, Ooooh...

And the unique terrain piece (pryamid, recharging station, Sacrificial Pit) would come with it's own army card, potentially have it's own stats and come with a scenario driven purpose/ability.

I.E.

Kill a figure and drag them back to the Sacrificial pit to call "SUPER BAD HERO".

OR

Pyramid grants +1 fire damage to followers of Ra (within range 3).

OR

To win the soulborgs need to bring 3 energy cells (glyphs) back to charging station before round 10 - Infinite respawns.

You get the idea.

[Nooblar]

I think $30 is a good price. It's low for most wargames (hey, even RISK costs $25!), and it's high enough that some heroes plus terrain won't bankrupt the manufacturers. Most importantly, I think it strikes a balance that says "High Value" to a first-time customer who may be skeptical.

Coming from a background with less-than-average disposable income, there's also a psychological element to a $30 price point. Parents might try to stay around $20 for a "main" birthday present (mine did), but could stretch that limit for something they see has high value. Kids who think it's "way awesome!" could feasibly save up enough to buy it without being tempted away by some smaller purchase (not me, I spent every penny as I earned it :P ). Of course, that may not be the demographic to target; I'm just saying what life was like when I was 8.

[Jexik]

My only worry with monolithic sets is that it might be tough for them to gauge demand before they're released and produce them accordingly. Personally, I don't care much at all about 'theme' in heroscape when it comes to purchasing units, but a lot of people do.

Some people say that they're sick of the Marro or swamps. What if ( perhaps instead of MS2) they made a set that just had swamp terrain and some Marros? Think if it were just TKN, 2x Nagrubs, 2x Stingers, 2x Drudge, and whatever amount of swamp terrain fit the price range. Would that sell? How much?

What if they simultaneously released a new box full of Unique Ninjas and Samurai? What ratio would they prodcue that compared to the Marro set? Sure, we probably already have enough varieties of these eastern themed units, and these are already themes that have been explored pretty thoroughly, but they are still quite popular among people who buy heroscape. (Just take a look at the availability fo the two unique packs in wave 5 some time).

I think the Rise of the Valkyrie model was the best way to get into the game: all uniques and lots of variety to get you interested in the variety that makes Heroscape what it is. This isn't Warhammer.

[Onacara]

What they should do is make a true STARTER SET..which would be the ROTV set but with 2 pre-built armies. They can be designed to show all of the aspects of the game...each side would get 2 unique heroes, 1 unique squad (3 figures) and 2 common squads (2x6 figures)

This would introduce new players to synergies and bonding that they can learn before delving into the other sets and expansions.

[Clockwork_Knight]

I'd love to see Jump Sets with pre made armies. I would just hope Hasbro wont mess it up like they did with the god awful Intro Packs they made for the newer blocks in Magic the Gathering.

Jump Sets would be a great way to get unique terrain and figures while getting newer players into the game with out having to make a large investment.

[Oogie_Da_Bruce]

Originally Posted by Onacara

What they should do is make a true STARTER SET..which would be the ROTV set but with 2 pre-built armies. They can be designed to show all of the aspects of the game...each side would get 2 unique heroes, 1 unique squad (3 figures) and 2 common squads (2x6 figures)

This would introduce new players to synergies and bonding that they can learn before delving into the other sets and expansions.

I think Onacara hit on something here. A TRUE Starter set, 2 armies + Terrian. Out of the box play for 2. Of couse you can mix and match with ROTV figs but there is no core army synergy. SOTM had all Marro but no army to fight against (hodgepodge units).

Add in JUMP boxes for more starter armies/special terrain.

Lastly normal bosters, to mix and match.

[Yodaking]

I like the concept. Cap it at $30, anything more and it won't sell well enough. Also only issue a small number of each army set at a time so the market place does not get flooded.

[JANDAR88]

I think that WotC should probably try to sell several different kinds of new sets, and stick with one or two that sell best. Heroscape has been very limited in how many kinds and sizes of sets it has so far, and maybe some new packageing and prices would attract more people.

[Dualahorn]

Theme packs might do better like that. Well... marvel didnt do to well. But wasn't it $40? I can't remember, its price has been all over the place recently. I think having the price set at thirty with a theme of star wars or LOTR would be really cool and would get player into the game. 30 sounds more appealing than forty. I really like your idea.

[nyys]

For $30 I don't think you can get nearly enough terrain to play with, especially if full 400-500 point armies are going to be included.

Just look at the Marvel set. IMO, not even close to enough terrain to have a decent game with, and we want to add more to a set like that and keep it at $30? Not going to happen.

Though I disagree with putting commons in a Master Set, I think Onacara has it right. A RotV-like amount of terrain along with enough units to make a couple 400-500 point armies.

I'm optomistic that with Walmart back on board (from what we've heard) that we may see RotV back on their shelves, keeping the Master Set more affordable for everyone. But if the trend is going to be to get the MS into the FLGSs then the price is going to have to increase, something we'll have to live with.

[rdhight]

Originally Posted by nyys

Though I disagree with putting commons in a Master Set, I think Onacara has it right. A RotV-like amount of terrain along with enough units to make a couple 400-500 point armies.

By my quick count, the units in RotV add up to 1,490 points. So "a RotV-like amount of terrain along with enough units to make a couple 400-500 point armies" is pretty much a master set, not a starter. The size/cost of a satisfying pile of terrain, to me, is what chokes any excitement out of slimmed-down Heroscape starters.

For instance, if you were to assemble a "starter pack" out of existing products, how much would it cost?

$20.00 Terrain expansion (incl. 1 squad)
$12.00 A booster pack (2 squads)
$12.00 Another booster pack (4-5 heroes)
$44.00

Let's say that by exploiting combined packaging, price of oil, economy in China, phase of the moon, etc., WotC knocks that down to $40.00 even. Assuming that common/unique squads work out and the heroes are well-chosen, you could have a pre-built 400-500 point army in there, sure. Again using existing products as examples... I just counted up quickly, and it looks like tundra has about 57 hexes and a road set has 29, plus obstacles. Average those out, add the terrain that comes with (some) booster packs, and you get 50 tiles. So if you and your buddy each spent $40.00, you'd have an army apiece and enough terrain between you to make a small map. A Marvel set has right around 100 hexes. You'd have a Marvel-sized map with several obstacles and a good variety of terrain types.

Forget not enough terrain at $30.00, there isn't near enough at $40.00!

This isn't really seeming like it's a better deal than two guys going in to buy a master set together. By the time you have an army to use, an army to fight against, and a minimal map to play on, wouldn't you be spending the price of either master set, easy?

In fact, if you double the units in this off-the-shelf approximation of a starter set, you get six squads and 8-10 heroes. And indeed, SotM has six squads and seven heroes. It seems like money-wise, two starters and one SotM are almost identical, with the SotM maybe being a little more efficient.