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  #13  
Old October 22nd, 2009, 08:40 PM
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Re: How to counter Turtle/steamroll/blitz armies

4th players, for one...

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  #14  
Old October 22nd, 2009, 09:07 PM
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Re: How to counter Turtle/steamroll/blitz armies

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Originally Posted by White Noise View Post
4th players, for one...

Why would you turtle with commons that have four defense WITH Raelin?

That is a one shield average defense roll (1.3, really) Those would go down really easily, against most figures. Plus, Raelin goes down easily, which means dead revolutionaries.
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  #15  
Old October 22nd, 2009, 09:09 PM
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Re: How to counter Turtle/steamroll/blitz armies

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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Noise View Post
4th players, for one...

Why would you turtle with commons that have four defense WITH Raelin?

That is a one shield average defense roll (1.3, really) Those would go down really easily, against most figures. Plus, Raelin goes down easily, which means dead revolutionaries.
WTF.

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  #16  
Old October 22nd, 2009, 09:11 PM
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Re: How to counter Turtle/steamroll/blitz armies

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Originally Posted by TurtleKing99 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Noise View Post
4th players, for one...

Why would you turtle with commons that have four defense WITH Raelin?

That is a one shield average defense roll (1.3, really) Those would go down really easily, against most figures. Plus, Raelin goes down easily, which means dead revolutionaries.
Yep, but the fact is, this cheap army is tried and true, and the uncreative resort to it when they want to get a cheap win.

I'm a F18, bro.
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  #17  
Old October 22nd, 2009, 09:12 PM
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Re: How to counter Turtle/steamroll/blitz armies

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Originally Posted by TurtleKing99 View Post
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Originally Posted by White Noise View Post
4th players, for one...

Why would you turtle with commons that have four defense WITH Raelin?

That is a one shield average defense roll (1.3, really) Those would go down really easily, against most figures. Plus, Raelin goes down easily, which means dead revolutionaries.
WTF.
Fine, maybe it's just because I can only use two squads of them. But whenever I play against them they die right away. Maybe this is because Scapemaster doesn't know how to use them, I don't know.
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  #18  
Old October 22nd, 2009, 09:14 PM
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Re: How to counter Turtle/steamroll/blitz armies

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Originally Posted by Oh Yeah! I'm Here View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleKing99 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Noise View Post
4th players, for one...

Why would you turtle with commons that have four defense WITH Raelin?

That is a one shield average defense roll (1.3, really) Those would go down really easily, against most figures. Plus, Raelin goes down easily, which means dead revolutionaries.
Yep, but the fact is, this cheap army is tried and true, and the uncreative resort to it when they want to get a cheap win.
Cheap as in low point cost, or cheap as in four attacks of three is too powerful?
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  #19  
Old October 22nd, 2009, 09:28 PM
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Re: How to counter Turtle/steamroll/blitz armies

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Originally Posted by TurtleKing99 View Post
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Originally Posted by Oh Yeah! I'm Here View Post
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Originally Posted by TurtleKing99 View Post
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4th players, for one...

Why would you turtle with commons that have four defense WITH Raelin?

That is a one shield average defense roll (1.3, really) Those would go down really easily, against most figures. Plus, Raelin goes down easily, which means dead revolutionaries.
Yep, but the fact is, this cheap army is tried and true, and the uncreative resort to it when they want to get a cheap win.
Cheap as in low point cost, or cheap as in four attacks of three is too powerful?
Cheap as in the strategy is simple and boring. You take high ground, wait for opponent to attempt to rush you, they die. It isn't anywhere near a fair fight.

I'm a F18, bro.
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  #20  
Old October 22nd, 2009, 09:31 PM
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Re: How to counter Turtle/steamroll/blitz armies

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Originally Posted by Oh Yeah! I'm Here View Post
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Originally Posted by TurtleKing99 View Post
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Originally Posted by Oh Yeah! I'm Here View Post
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4th players, for one...

Why would you turtle with commons that have four defense WITH Raelin?

That is a one shield average defense roll (1.3, really) Those would go down really easily, against most figures. Plus, Raelin goes down easily, which means dead revolutionaries.
Yep, but the fact is, this cheap army is tried and true, and the uncreative resort to it when they want to get a cheap win.
Cheap as in low point cost, or cheap as in four attacks of three is too powerful?
Cheap as in the strategy is simple and boring. You take high ground, wait for opponent to attempt to rush you, they die. It isn't anywhere near a fair fight.
Yea, that would be four attacks of four. I guess that that rarely happens to me because I get the high ground first, or because Scapemaster (who I usually play against) Just leaves them in the starting zone while he deals with Cyprein/another threatening force of mine.
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  #21  
Old October 22nd, 2009, 11:37 PM
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Re: How to counter Turtle/steamroll/blitz armies

Hmm, who to back up... My friend, who's right; or the rest of the community, who's also right...

Here's how I see it:

The 4th Mass, as I've played, are good, albeit situational. In order to be successful, you need height, a def buff (Raelin/valient army) and be able to hit the opponent on their way to you. If your opponent (i.e. turtleking) uses Cyprien, or other figures of the like, you are, to put it nicely, screwed.

You cannot hit Cyprein, whilst camping, because he can stay out of range, then pop in and destroy you before you can get enough hits on him, all the while, he's healing, and taking away all you advantages with the 4th.

HOWEVER, as a basis, the 4th/10th are very good in turtles, as they get more attack for doing what turtles do best: sit there and not lose.

This also explains why, in the before-mentioned posts, I do poorly, and have resorted to other armies to take out Turtleking's favorite unit.

~Those who live by the dice, die by the dice.
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  #22  
Old October 22nd, 2009, 11:43 PM
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Re: How to counter Turtle/steamroll/blitz armies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scapemaster View Post
Hmm, who to back up... My friend, who's right; or the rest of the community, who's also right...

Here's how I see it:

The 4th Mass, as I've played, are good, albeit situational. In order to be successful, you need height, a def buff (Raelin/valient army) and be able to hit the opponent on their way to you. If your opponent (i.e. turtleking) uses Cyprien, or other figures of the like, you are, to put it nicely, screwed.

You cannot hit Cyprein, whilst camping, because he can stay out of range, then pop in and destroy you before you can get enough hits on him, all the while, he's healing, and taking away all you advantages with the 4th.

HOWEVER, as a basis, the 4th/10th are very good in turtles, as they get more attack for doing what turtles do best: sit there and not lose.

This also explains why, in the before-mentioned posts, I do poorly, and have resorted to other armies to take out Turtleking's favorite unit.

Gee, thanks for backing me up, Scapemaster
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  #23  
Old October 23rd, 2009, 03:32 AM
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Re: How to counter Turtle/steamroll/blitz armies

Look at this guide I wrote up (about the same time as this was posted actually).

You didn't really go deep enough with your concept here OY!IH. The 4th Mass, 10th Reg, and Stingers (don't think the last two were mentioned yet though) as qualify as what I refer to as Steam Roller units. They are ranged, yes, but use short - mid ranged attacks. Because of this, they typically have to move across the board in a big group otherwise they get thinned out and can't take advantage of their WTF bonus with maximum effect.

There is much more to playing a 4th Mass/10th Reg army than simply gaining high ground and waiting for your opponent to come to you...why would they, they are at a significant disadvantage. Instead, you need to have a significant amount of figures on the board and moving forward for them to reach their maximum potential. WTF is not what makes them great, its the fact that they are common and have 4 activations each turn.

And...if Cyprien really wants to fly into a bunch of 4th Mass, I'll gladly take 4 shots of 3-4 at him in exchange for (most likely) one figure a turn till he's dead.
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  #24  
Old October 23rd, 2009, 07:45 AM
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Re: How to counter Turtle/steamroll/blitz armies

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Originally Posted by TurtleKing99 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Noise View Post
4th players, for one...

Why would you turtle with commons that have four defense WITH Raelin?

That is a one shield average defense roll (1.3, really) Those would go down really easily, against most figures. Plus, Raelin goes down easily, which means dead revolutionaries.
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