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  #3781  
Old October 12th, 2019, 01:11 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

208? Wow. Where at?
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  #3782  
Old October 12th, 2019, 07:54 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
208? Wow. Where at?
Troll and Toad.
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  #3783  
Old October 14th, 2019, 11:58 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

My impression of the Vulcanmech Striker is that you have a great design held back by sticking too heavily to desired themes. You really have four powers, including one wordy one. Two of those power are offensive, one defensive, and one positioning. Frankly, that's unnecessary. A more focus would turn this from a good custom to a great one (and practically a shoe-in for approval, imo).

The part that screams to be dropped is Priority Power Systems, either the defense boost, the melee boost, or both. A leaping Vulcanmech with dual cannons? Awesome! Anything beyond that isn't gravy, it's spice that distracts from the flavor of the main dish. Yes, it has big legs, and you have great representation of them in Jump. The defense boost is a neat power, but not especially exciting on a low-Life figure, and it doesn't feel especially fitting for a Soulborg. I would drop the whole power myself and boost Attack and Defense, and let the unit shine as a Double Shot Jumping mech.

If you do insist on a third power, let me workshop a bit and recommend reusing Redundant Systems. It would be a neat tie back to the other Vulcanmechs, and would feel different on a multi-life Hero instead of a Squad. While they seem like just more Life points, they aren't, as they can be saved to prevent multi-wound hits.

Other less important bits. I don't like Move 7. I understand why with the legs, but to me at least 7 seems reserved for speedsters like Vipers. Move 6 is already plenty with Jump. Move 7 also cuts into the value of Jump, as it allows it to do a lot of climbing naturally.

I somewhat dislike Range 5; it seems like an unnecessary limitation. This guy will naturally want to leap onto a hill and shoot down. That's a really great visual and tactically valuable. Range 5 just makes that harder too do. If it's intended as a painful weakness, ok, but I don't think it needs it.

Marauder is great, Sporadic is ... huh? I don't really get what that's saying. A jumping shooter would play like a Precise, but you could go with something more thematic. I just don't get Sporadic, not on this design.

I prefer calling the power Jump, for exactly the reasons you stated. I think the mini itself clears up what that means.
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  #3784  
Old October 14th, 2019, 12:31 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop


Well met!

After testing various versions of these figures, I think we're about ready for workshopping.




RANIA REYJYRE,
SISTER OF LIGHT

General Ullar

Unique Hero
Species Elf
Class Soldier
Personality Valiant

Size Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4


Points 130

INSPIRATION
After moving and before attacking, Rania may use Inspiration. When using Inspiration, you must roll the die for all friendly figures within 3 clear sight spaces of Rania, one at a time. If you roll a 20, take an immediate turn with that figure. Inspiration does not affect Rania.

A SOLDIER’S ENDURANCE
After moving and attacking with Rania, you may move Rania up to 3 additional spaces and attack one additional time. Rania will take any leaving engagement attacks when moving with A Soldier’s Endurance.


ELVEN ARMOR
When rolling defense dice, if one shield is rolled, add an additional shield to whatever is rolled.







SIRENIA, SISTER OF DARKNESS

General Utgar

Unique Hero
Species Undead
Class Warrior
Personality Terrifying


Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4


Points 130

EVIL INSPIRATION
After moving and before attacking, Sirenia may use Evil Inspiration. When using Evil Inspiration, you must roll the die for all figures within 3 clear sight spaces of Sirenia, one at a time. If you roll a 20, take an immediate turn with that figure. Evil Inspiration does not affect Sirenia.


LIFE DRAIN
Each time Sirenia destroys a figure, you may remove a wound from this Army Card. Sirenia cannot Life Drain destructible objects.

SONIC SWORD
Range 1, Attack 4
Choose a figure to attack. You may also choose another figure adjacent to the targeted figure to be affected by Sonic Sword. Roll attack dice once for both figures. When Sirenia attacks with Sonic Sword, she may attack one additional time.




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  #3785  
Old October 14th, 2019, 01:19 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Inspiration does not work. There is no such thing a taking a turn with a single figure. Heroscape is based on units (heroes and squads), and only units take turns.
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  #3786  
Old October 14th, 2019, 01:29 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Well met!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Inspiration does not work. There is no such thing a taking a turn with a single figure. Heroscape is based on units (heroes and squads), and only units take turns.

I thought "figure" and "unit" were interchangeable. So, just insert "unit" for figure and we're good? Or must I restrict Inspiration and Evil Inspiration to heroes? Otherwise, what do you think of these "units?"



RANIA REYJYRE,
SISTER OF LIGHT

General Ullar

Unique Hero
Species Elf
Class Soldier
Personality Valiant

Size Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4


Points 130

INSPIRATION
After moving and before attacking, Rania may use Inspiration. When using Inspiration, you must roll the die for all friendly units within 3 clear sight spaces of Rania, one at a time. If you roll a 20, take an immediate turn with that unit. Inspiration does not affect Rania.

A SOLDIER’S ENDURANCE
After moving and attacking with Rania, you may move Rania up to 3 additional spaces and attack one additional time. Rania will take any leaving engagement attacks when moving with A Soldier’s Endurance.


ELVEN ARMOR
When rolling defense dice, if one shield is rolled, add an additional shield to whatever is rolled.







SIRENIA, SISTER OF DARKNESS

General Utgar

Unique Hero
Species Undead
Class Warrior
Personality Terrifying


Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4


Points 130

EVIL INSPIRATION
After moving and before attacking, Sirenia may use Evil Inspiration. When using Evil Inspiration, you must roll the die for all units within 3 clear sight spaces of Sirenia, one at a time. If you roll a 20, take an immediate turn with that unit. Evil Inspiration does not affect Sirenia.


LIFE DRAIN
Each time Sirenia destroys a figure, you may remove a wound from this Army Card. Sirenia cannot Life Drain destructible objects.

SONIC SWORD
Range 1, Attack 4
Choose a figure to attack. You may also choose another figure adjacent to the targeted figure to be affected by Sonic Sword. Roll attack dice once for both figures. When Sirenia attacks with Sonic Sword, she may attack one additional time.





Last edited by kolakoski; October 14th, 2019 at 01:58 PM.
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  #3787  
Old October 14th, 2019, 01:56 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post


Well met!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Inspiration does not work. There is no such thing a taking a turn with a single figure. Heroscape is based on units (heroes and squads), and only units take turns.
[LEFT]
So, just insert "unit" for figure and we're good? Otherwise, what do you think of these "units?"
Unfortunately it's not that easy. If there's a single squad figure within 3 spaces of one of those units using Inspiration and you get the 20, you'll take a turn with that entire squad, not just the one in 3 spaces, and could take a turn with squad figures on the other side of the board. You could add words to make it work with all figures, but that would get incredibly wordy and not worth the effort. Better to keep it to Unique Heroes if you're using the power. (I have further thoughts on the power as a whole, but I'm posting in between things right now -- I'll try to get more comprehensive notes in later if I can.)
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  #3788  
Old October 14th, 2019, 02:01 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop



Well met!

"Unfortunately it's not that easy. If there's a single squad figure within 3 spaces of one of those units using Inspiration and you get the 20, you'll take a turn with that entire squad, not just the one in 3 spaces, and could take a turn with squad figures on the other side of the board. You could add words to make it work with all figures, but that would get incredibly wordy and not worth the effort. Better to keep it to Unique Heroes if you're using the power. (I have further thoughts on the power as a whole, but I'm posting in between things right now -- I'll try to get more comprehensive notes in later if I can.)"

OK. Thanks!




RANIA REYJYRE,
SISTER OF LIGHT

General Ullar

Unique Hero
Species Elf
Class Soldier
Personality Valiant

Size Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4


Points 130

INSPIRATION
After moving and before attacking, Rania may use Inspiration. When using Inspiration, you must roll the die for all friendly Unique Heroes within 3 clear sight spaces of Rania, one at a time. If you roll a 20, take an immediate turn with that Unique Hero. Inspiration does not affect Rania.

A SOLDIER’S ENDURANCE
After moving and attacking with Rania, you may move Rania up to 3 additional spaces and attack one additional time. Rania will take any leaving engagement attacks when moving with A Soldier’s Endurance.


ELVEN ARMOR
When rolling defense dice, if one shield is rolled, add an additional shield to whatever is rolled.







SIRENIA, SISTER OF DARKNESS

General Utgar

Unique Hero
Species Undead
Class Warrior
Personality Terrifying


Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4


Points 130

EVIL INSPIRATION
After moving and before attacking, Sirenia may use Evil Inspiration. When using Evil Inspiration, you must roll the die for all Unique Heroes within 3 clear sight spaces of Sirenia, one at a time. If you roll a 20, take an immediate turn with that
Unique Hero. Evil Inspiration does not affect Sirenia.

LIFE DRAIN
Each time Sirenia destroys a figure, you may remove a wound from this Army Card. Sirenia cannot Life Drain destructible objects.

SONIC SWORD
Range 1, Attack 4
Choose a figure to attack. You may also choose another figure adjacent to the targeted figure to be affected by Sonic Sword. Roll attack dice once for both figures. When Sirenia attacks with Sonic Sword, she may attack one additional time.




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  #3789  
Old October 14th, 2019, 02:35 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post


Well met!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Inspiration does not work. There is no such thing a taking a turn with a single figure. Heroscape is based on units (heroes and squads), and only units take turns.
[LEFT]
So, just insert "unit" for figure and we're good? Otherwise, what do you think of these "units?"
Unfortunately it's not that easy. If there's a single squad figure within 3 spaces of one of those units using Inspiration and you get the 20, you'll take a turn with that entire squad, not just the one in 3 spaces, and could take a turn with squad figures on the other side of the board. You could add words to make it work with all figures, but that would get incredibly wordy and not worth the effort. Better to keep it to Unique Heroes if you're using the power. (I have further thoughts on the power as a whole, but I'm posting in between things right now -- I'll try to get more comprehensive notes in later if I can.)
Actually, the Marro Hive gives an example of how to work an aura with a squad taking a turn, using "Any figure that is taking a turn must be within 12 clear sight spaces of the Marro Hive prior to its movement."

But I think these designs would be better served only working with Unique Heroes, as you noted.
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  #3790  
Old October 15th, 2019, 02:28 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

So, move > roll > take (possibly multiple) turns > attack > move again? That seems like....a lot.

Also, 4 defense with an autoshield is impenetrable.
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  #3791  
Old October 15th, 2019, 03:01 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Inspiration is still problematic. That allows turns within turns, always a no-no. You would have to change to it "after taking a turn with XXX".

I don't really like it, though. The high roll requirement makes it not overpowered, but that just means that each turn requires a pile of rolling that usually doesn't have any effect.

I agree with PK that 4 Defense + 1 auto-shield is broken good.

Soldier's Endurance is a good power, and Sonic Sword is cool, except the second attack is too much, especially when paired with Life Drain.
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  #3792  
Old October 16th, 2019, 01:43 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop



Well met!

Thanks for replying. My comments (within quote) in red.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Inspiration is still problematic. That allows turns within turns, always a no-no. You would have to change to it "after taking a turn with XXX".

No problem.

I don't really like it, though. The high roll requirement makes it not overpowered, but that just means that each turn requires a pile of rolling that usually doesn't have any effect.

I bet you don't really like Runa, either. Even so, we could go with

INSPIRATION
After taking a turn with Rania, she may use Inspiration. When using Inspiration, choose a friendly Unique Hero within 3 clear sight spaces of Rania, and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 20, take an immediate turn with that Unique Hero. Inspiration does not affect Rania.


Similarly

EVIL INSPIRATION
After taking a turn with Sirenia, she may use Evil Inspiration. When using Evil Inspiration, choose a Unique Hero within 3 clear sight spaces of Sirenia, and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 20, take an immediate turn with that Unique Hero. Evil Inspiration does not affect Sirenia.

I agree with PK that 4 Defense + 1 auto-shield is broken good.

Elven Armor is dispensable. Would you replace it or just remove it? Although the name of the figure is Armored Elf Soldier (thus her Class), her armor could be seen as being represented by 4 Defense, I suppose, but would 5 be too much.

Soldier's Endurance is a good power, and Sonic Sword is cool, except the second attack is too much, especially when paired with Life Drain.

Life Drain is dispensable too, but only if Sonic Sword keeping its second attack is then viable. Sonic Sword comes from the sculpt. We play tested with it being a ranged D20 power. I'm way open to suggestion on what Sonic Sword might look like. For the time being, we'll do as you suggest.

It may be that Rania's A Soldier's Endurance alone may be enough, along with her sculpt, to warrant induction, but I'd prefer to give her at least one more Special Power. Her sculpt implies a leadership power to me, and I suppose we could go with an existing one (adding movement or attack dice to friendly units), but I like the idea of Inspiration. I don't think, under any iteration, there would be "a pile of rolling," and, of course, it would rarely work - that's the idea, although we could make it [17-19]-20. Helm of Mitonsoul rarely works either. Elven Armor would, I guess, be OK with a Defense of 3, but then, for stat symmetry's sake, I'd be tempted to reduce her Attack to 3 as well. So, which of the two versions of Rania below would you prefer (and how would you price them)?

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4


Points ???

INSPIRATION
After taking a turn with Rania, she may use Inspiration. When using Inspiration, choose a friendly Unique Hero within 3 clear sight spaces of Rania, and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 20, take an immediate turn with that Unique Hero. Inspiration does not affect Rania.


A SOLDIER’S ENDURANCE
After moving and attacking with Rania, you may move Rania up to 3 additional spaces and attack one additional time. Rania will take any leaving engagement attacks when moving with A Soldier’s Endurance.



OR


Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 3
Defense 3

Points ???

INSPIRATION
After taking a turn with Rania, she may use Inspiration. When using Inspiration, choose a friendly Unique Hero within 3 clear sight spaces of Rania, and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 20, take an immediate turn with that Unique Hero. Inspiration does not affect Rania.


A SOLDIER’S ENDURANCE
After moving and attacking with Rania, you may move Rania up to 3 additional spaces and attack one additional time. Rania will take any leaving engagement attacks when moving with A Soldier’s Endurance.

ELVEN ARMOR
When rolling defense dice, if one shield is rolled, add an additional shield to whatever is rolled.

Sirenia is more problematic as, although fine as is, i.e., with Life Drain and some form of Evil Inspiration, Sonic Sword is what will make or break this design - and I'm thinking the current version (with only one attack) can be improved upon.





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