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HS Heroes and DnD Party Roles-building a dungeon army
Parties in 4e DnD are built around four members filling four general Roles, each of which has a specific niche. For personal entertainment and information I divided all the unique heroes into the four roles. I included all the unique heroes, even ones like Deathwalker 9000 (since I remember the good-old days when you could still play things like an Awakened Iron Golem enchanted with the ability to use Fireball as a Spell-Like Ability /rant). I also noted each figures points to help with quick army building.After I finished I decided to post this list, in case anyone else had any interest in running scenarios around a "classic" DnD party other than the one provided in the MS3. I wrote up a brief description of each role to clarify them for people without any experience with 4e.
As always with my lists, this is now a community resource, and if anyone sees a way to better it for the community please feel free to share your ideas (especially if a unit seems out of place-some were quite difficult to nail down). Defender-Excellent raw survivability through a combination of strong defense and/or high life. Moderate damage output, usually focused on melee combat, often accompanied by the ability to force an enemy to bring the fight to them. MS3 example-Tandros Kreel Striker-Relatively low life and defense augmented by an ability to avoid damage another way, either by fighting from range or a special ability. High damage output, either through multiple attacks or special abilities that increase damage in specific situations. Often have very high mobility. MS3 example-Darrak Ambershard Leader-Support allies through numerical boosts or healing. Moderate survivability and damage output. MS3 example-Ana Karithon Controller-Have the ability to affect several targets with a single attack or control or affect an opponents actions. Low survivability and base damage output. MS3 example-Erevan Sunshadow The key to a strong party is diversity. Make sure your units support one another. For best effect try to have a solid, lock-down, front-line hero, a mobile, ranged multi-attack hero, a hero that boosts your other hero's survivability, and a hero that can blast several enemies at once or limit your opponent's ability to attack your army. *, *, * or * after a unit's name denotes that they are also listed under Defender, Striker, Leader or Controller. * after a unit's points denotes that a large portion of their value is derived from their ability to improve squads. Defender Abomination - 320 Brunak* - 110 Charos - 210 Crixus - 90 Eltahale* - 140 Fen Hydra* - 120 Frost Giant of Morh* - 140 Gurei-Oni - 100 Incredible Hulk - 370 Iron Golem - 100 Jotun - 225 Major Q9* - 180 Major X17 - 100 Migol Ironwill - 110 Mogrimm Forgehammer- 120 Ogre Pulverizer - 100 Retiarius - 90 Sgt. Drake RotV* - 110 Sgt. Drake SotM* - 170 Shurrak - 160 Siege - 120 Sir Denrick - 100 Sir Dupuis - 150 Sir Hawthorne - 90 Tandros Kreel - 120 Tor-Kul-Na - 220 Torin** - 120 Thanos - 360 Valguard - 110 Werewolf Lord* - 140 Striker Agent Carr - 100 Agent Skahen - 120 Alastair MacDirk - 110 Arkmer - 50 Brandis Skyhunter - 90 Brave Arrow - 50 Braxas - 210 Brunak* - 110 Chardris - 90 Cyprien Esenwein - 150 Darrak Ambershard - 60 Deadeye Dan - 60 Deathwalker 7000* - 100 Deathwalker 8000* - 130 Eldgrim - 30 Eltahale* - 140 Estivara - 80 Evar Scarcarver - 110 Feral Troll - 90 Fen Hydra* - 120 Frost Giant of Morh* - 140 Grimnak - 120 Guilty McCreech - 30 Ice Troll Berserker - 85 Iron Man - 220 Isamu - 10 Iskra without Rechets - 50 Kaemon Awa - 120 Krug - 120 Kumiko - 80 Major Q10 - 150 Major Q9* - 180 Marcu - 20 Master of the Hunt - 140 Master Woo - 140 Me-Burq-Sa - 50 Mika Connour - 110 Moriko -110 Nerak - 50 Nilfheim - 185 Ogre Warhulk - 150 Othkurik - 140 Otonashi - 10 Samuel Brown - 60 Sgt. Drake RotV* - 110 Sgt. Drake SotM* - 170 Sharwin Wildborn - 110 Shiori - 60 Silver Surfer - 320 Sonya Esenwein - 45 Spider Man - 160 Su-Bak-Na - 160 Sujoah - 185 Syvarris - 100 Theracus - 40 Torin** - 120 Tornak - 100 Venom - 150 Warden 816* - 90 Wo-Sa-Ga - 135 Zelrig* - 185 Zetacron - 60 Leader Acolarh - 110 Ana Karithon - 100 Atlaga - 90 Captain America - 220 Concan - 80 Emirroon - 80 Empress Kiova - 90* Finn - 80 Hatamoto Taro - 130* Kato Katsuro - 200* Kelda - 80 Khosumet - 75* Kurrok the Elementalist - 120 Kyntela Gwyn - 20 Laglor - 110 Marcus Decimus Gallus - 100* Ornak - 100* Parmenio - 90* Raelin RotV - 80 Raelin SotM - 120 Rhogar Dragonspine - 110 Saylind - 80 Sir Gilbert - 105 Sonlen - 160 Spartacus - 200 Taelord - 180 Thorgrim - 80 Torin** - 120 Ulginesh - 150 Venoc Warlord - 120* Warden 816* - 90 Controller Deathwalker 7000* - 100 Deathwalker 8000* - 130 Deathwalker 9000 - 140 Doctor Doom - 245 Dund - 110 Erevan Sunshadow - 80 Greater Ice Elemental - 130 Heirloom - 80 Iskra with Rechets - 100 James Murphy - 75 Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan - 60 Jorhdawn - 100 Kee-Mo-Shi - 130 Mimring - 150 Mind Flayer Mastermind - 100 Moltenclaw - 170 Morsbane - 100 Ne-Gok-Sa - 90 Pelloth - 90 Red Skull - 190 Runa - 120 Sudema - 140 Werewolf Lord* - 140 Wyvern - 100 Zelrig* - 185 Last edited by Killometer; November 29th, 2010 at 12:44 PM. |
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Re: HS Heroes and DnD Party Roles
Good post and nice break down of how to build a party. Though from my limited experience I would like to add a few things that really makes a party thrive.
Healer - In an all hero campaign the ability to heal your units has so far proven to be pretty important. Unless you got a decent stock of health potions, or are doing a very short campaign having a healer in your group is very valuable Multi-attacker - You will be facing multiple foes, most likely squads. Having the ability to strike more than once per OM is also very important. Special attacker - by passes certain defenses. Makes certain battles much easier. I will also say that you want all your heroes to have adequate life and half decent defense. Adequate life (minimum 3, but 4+ much better) is very important because of the numerous autowound abilities that would kill them too quickly. Multiple life also means that healing is effective on these units. Without enough life the unit will not get a chance to heal (via other unit or potion) thus negating that advantage you had. "I wish my iPad would stop trying to autocorrect all the heroscape names for me." Good Trades I have had. Collection Guide for Recommended Quantities. Last edited by Toad Rocket; January 9th, 2010 at 02:44 PM. |
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Re: HS Heroes and DnD Party Roles
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Re: HS Heroes and DnD Party Roles
Awesome work! I would +rep, but I need to "spread some around".
But this helps in making custom campaigns a lot! |
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Re: HS Heroes and DnD Party Roles
Great thread, I like your thinking! Still, going by your list and omitting Utgar units, I find it very hard to form a 360-point, four-man party using figures that were not included in the D&D master set. I decided on 365 - that's no biggy though, at least not to me.
Anyway, here's my theoretical party: Defender: Migol Ironwill Striker: Agent Carr Leader: Thorgrim Controller: James Murphy The only thing I don't like is how there are three humans, but I guess it's really no big deal. I wanted an elf but all the wizards rely on the other wizards being present, and Sonlen is too expensive. I must have Migol in my party, he is too cool. Also, I find the concept of the Defender a devious one seeing as Tandros Kreel is the only figure with a taunt attack. What good is a tank who can't force the enemy to attack him? This is just nit-picking, but I think it's strange that you call the third class "Leader". Very rarely do I see the healer as the leader; usually the tank is the leader of the group. I guess it's more figurative, especially sense there are pretty much no healers in Heroscape. Last edited by Bogusoid; January 23rd, 2010 at 01:58 PM. |
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Re: HS Heroes and DnD Party Roles
Interesting.
I'd quibble with your list a bit...Strikers seem to be assassins. Phantom walkers/disengagers are obvious, but Darrak doesn't have that power. He does have the biggest attack value of the four heroes, though, which is what makes him a Striker. Also, Strikers, it seems, don't hog the Order Markers until it's time for them to strike. Your defender or controller seems to hog the order markers, with your leader cheerleading. Once it's time to strike (like Darrak gets in a flank with Tandros) suddenly you put all your order markers on the Striker. Agent Skahen 120 I'd say is either a Leader or a Controller, not a Striker. She doesn't really have any personal mobility, but she can make tricky vydar agents (Carr/Dund) more mobile. She doesn't have a single big attack, like Darrak, but she can attack effectively from range, like Ereven. I'd probably say she's a leader in a Vydar party, or a controller in a non-Vydar party. Another way to look at it: if Emirron is a leader, than Skahen should be, too. Arkmar 50 I'd say is a defender. Like all the elf wizards you need an all elf wizard party for him, but you can get his defense numbers pretty high and he has engagement strike. Granted, he has low life, but that's why you get what you pay for (as compared to the 120 point Tandros). Chardris 90 I'd say is a controller. Again, he needs elf wizard support, but he's almost exactly like Ereven...a decent ranged special attack and not much else. Kaeman Awa 120 I'd definitely say is a controller. A double special attack makes him one of the best controllers out there. Guilty McCreech 30 I'd say is a controller, too. Same goes for Syvarris 100. Basically, anyone with a double ranged attack I'd say is a controller, not a striker, even though they don't have a special attack. It seems like the controller is the party's ranged specialist. I agree with Toad Rocket that ideally the controller would have a special attack, but I still think Guilty and Syvarris are controllers. EDIT: I just wanted to make sure I wasn't coming off as too critical. I think this is a great thread/post by killometer. Last edited by SgtHulka; January 24th, 2010 at 04:17 PM. |
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Re: HS Heroes and DnD Party Roles
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The Elves (along with Marvel) were amongst the hardest units to place, so I definitely appreciate any feedback on them. I'll look into them more when I have a chance to spend some time on it. Quote:
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Re: HS Heroes and DnD Party Roles
I thought I had mentioned this here before, but I guess not. I tried playing a custom campaign scenario of mine, and I don't know if the monster was too tough (four heroes, 360 points against Su-Bak-Na and two squads of Nagrubs), or if it was the fact that I wasn't using the four D&D heroes. My biggest problem was how no one can taunt except Tandros Kreel.
What is a custom party using Classic heroes to do? If you want everyone to survive to the next map and a hard-hitting monster gets in the way, it's very hard to keep everyone alive when it can target the squishiest member of your party whenever it wants. What is your opinion on the importance of Combat Challenge, and have you experienced success without it? I'm the wiener, you're the bun. Come on over, let's have fun! Confirmed Good Traders: tcglkn, DragonSlayer2 |
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Re: HS Heroes and DnD Party Roles
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For defenders I'm a big fan of Sir Denrick (100) because A Coward's Reward is a strong deterrent to leaving engagement, and Valguard (110), because if your enemy does move away from him then he can get extra attack dice. For striker I like Syvarris (100) best-he has excellent abilities and stats (Double Attack and a Range of 9), and fits thematically into BftU. For leaders either Raelin (80) or Kelda (80) would be great additions to a party. I'm partial to Kelda for an all-hero army, because I find aura's to be too limiting. She can be difficult to work into OM management, but being able remove wounds from your heavy-hitters is worth the effort. For controllers finding someone cheap with an area effect is difficult, but Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan (60) performs well without taking up too much of a 360 point army. Basically, as long as you have all, or even just most, of your bases covered, you shouldn't be too reliant on having a single power to find success. |
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Re: HS Heroes and DnD Party Roles
I've added the Greater Ice Elemental-he was very difficult to place. Initially I was debating between Defender, due to his potential for high survival thanks to Cold Healing, or Striker, due to his high damage output and ability to resist becoming engaged. Finally, though, I settled on Controller, because I realized that his real strength lies in controlling the battlefield. His double hex base in conjunction with Ice Cold and Ice Spikes allows him to boost the mobility of his allies (by creating large ice bridges-up to 4 hexes long) and hinder his enemies (by blocking up key choke points-Disengage doesn't help getting past this guy).
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Re: HS Heroes and DnD Party Roles
I've added the Wyvern to the list as a Controller. At first glance his best use seems to be to grab a figure like Raelin or Sir Gilbert and move them away from the figs they are supposed to be supporting, which is a very Controller-like tactic.
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Re: HS Heroes and DnD Party Roles-building a dungeon army
Brandis is an easy addition-he is a gimmee for a Striker. In DnD Rangers are Strikers, and Brandis' powers are perfect for the role: high damage potential against a specific target-set with the potential for multiple attacks.
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