Castle vs Castle: nether/ oogiezone VS. funrun/ rolls_skulls

[funrun]

This past weekend, my fiance rolls_skulls and I hosted netherspirit and his girlfriend oogiezone for a weekend of fun and games. Here is a quick summary of our castle vs. castle game.

nether/ oogie picked up 2 castles and a lot of wave 5 right before they came over, so the first thing we did was start building a custom map with 2 castles. I tried to make the map balanced but non-symmetrical, and I wanted to see how versatile the castle pieces were, so we built the castles walls to fit the symmetry of the terrain that we (kinda) randomly set up. We placed the water and bridge with the intent to create some battle points on the side of the map without the castle doors. We also spaced the castles just far enough away to let ranged figures rain down on anyone who crossed the bridge. The other key feature was the range glyph placed just outside the castle door, yet down in the water. Once the players in the castle opened the door and let someone out to get the glyph, then our ranged figures could fire from one castle walk to the other's castle walk. Trees and ruins provided other cover on the edges, but they didn't come into play much in this game.
Map Overview


inside oogiezone's castle


inside funrun's castle


We played in teams, with each team having one player start inside the castle anywhere on the flat ground and the teammate starting outside the castle against their own castle wall and on the opposite side of the bridge leading the castle doors.
nether/oogie's starting zones


rolls_skulls/funrun's starting zones


funrun moves her figures up the ladders. . .


. . .and into firing position


. . .but then realized she needed to open the castle door and send some guys out to get that range glyph!


rolls_skull's Q9 did a good job assaulting oogie's castle door down to 4 or so lives. funrun's Syvarris used his +2 height bonus from being on top of the castle to take the door down the rest of the way. Lots of carnage had ensued between the ground forces, but once the castle armies were left and the door was down, it was 3am and we agreed to call the game a stalemate. Overall, the castle was a lot of fun to build and play, we just need a more challenging scenario next time.

[reapersaurus]

I apologize in advance for this wholly-inappropriate joke, but I must....

Originally Posted by funrun

inside funrun's castle

See, with a caption like THAT......







This was a somewhat disappointing of pic.

Overall, the castle was a lot of fun to build and play, we just need a more challenging scenario next time.

Yeah, I'm really hoping some very creative member(s) come up with various strong scenarios, cause it's lookin' like these castles may just be furniture in most serious HS games, what with their almost-impossible-to-balance effect on the game and the figures/abilities.
Is anyone else worried about these castles becoming after-thoughts in serious gameplay? Heck, lava may be easier to include in a serious balanced map....

Oh yeah - great pics, and battle report, and all that.
You coulda had a pic of you, taken thru the castle door, showing your face just up to your nose again....

Oh yeah, and

[hex706f726368]

Originally Posted by reapersaurus

Is anyone else worried about these castles becoming after-thoughts in serious gameplay?

Yes. I've only played three games (each the 2-player scenario provided), and after each game we've discussed the strageties and counter-strategies employed. I need to play a few more games with more flyers before I form a strong opinion, but I'm leaning towards attacking that door as just plain stupid on any castle more than 1 level.

Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure the designers built sgt. drake with the castle in mind. He's was that effective all three games.

ETA:
btw, nice map funrun. I like the idea of putting two castles so close together.

[yagyuninja]

Thanks for the pics funrun.

About the balancing/scenarios, I played a 2v2v2 three-castle game last week that actually worked out pretty well. We built this really cool map with a single-wall height ice castle (with some double-high towers), a double wall-height lava castle, and a triple wall-height forest tower, and roads between each that formed a triangle.

At the last moment, worried that no one would leave their castle, I stuck 6 glyphs of brandar out in the center of the map. To win, you had to get 6 points, with each glyph being worth 1 point and each flag being worth 2 points (including your own). It worked out great! Everyone sent armies out to snatch up glyphs, and some people chased glyph carriers back to their castles (and were promptly shot down once they got in range). There was a lot of back and forth over the last glyph, and a couple fights over one team's flag.

But yeah, nobody even once attacked a door. Those things are ridiculous.

[LilNewbie]

Great pics and recap. Thanks for posting them. Sounds like a great idea for a scenario, yagyuninja!

BTW, favorite pic:



I like the look of the activity going on outside the door with the loan 4th Mass guy hanging back swigging his ale.


Newb.

[Bobbo]

Originally Posted by reapersaurus

Is anyone else worried about these castles becoming after-thoughts in serious gameplay?

I liken castles in Heroscape to betting NIL in Spades. It is kinda fun, but it changes the way the entire game is played. The normal drafting rules go out the window and the dynamic of figures changes. Flying figures and any ranged characters become a must. Figures that were once good (knights, romans, Tarn Viking warr... never mind) become next to worthless (although now that I think of it, the McDirk Warriors all pumped up might be a cheap counter to a stubborn castle door). They are fun to play with, but I don't think that defend the castle will be popular in many of our games for a couple of reasons:

1. They take a long time and there aren't as many exciting moments. Our first castle game took 3 hours and lasted 9 rounds. There were a lot of checking LOS on defenders, and the defender rolling lots of attack dice and the attacker rolling lots of defense dice (seems backwards somehow). No epic clashes of warriors. Just figures sniping at each other and other figures failing to damage the door. There were a couple of exciting moments, like the monks successfully leaping up onto the walls, and being killed by 2 elves that could somehow shoot bows while climbing a ladder I guess when Charos finally took the walls and singlehandedly destroyed all the defenders we also had a good time

2. The two dice attack advantage is huge. Sometimes overpoweringly huge. Orc archers easily throwing 5 attack dice. 4th Mass My word. The balance issues are tough to resolve, since it doesn't seem to matter how many points the attacker has, since most of his guys are now near worthless.

3. The castle door is too tough to destroy. There are only a select few that can do it, and it takes forever while being shot at. The assault on the door lasted about 2 turns, before just flying over the walls became the trick of the day.

Although I think that the castle sets will be used a lot, just not necessarily in the same ways. Stacking two walls on top of each other seems to make the defenders near unbeatable, so our walls will probably remain 1 high. Neutral castles are cool, and will probably see a lot of play. Making single high sniper posts is pretty cool too. We will be using ladders a lot to scale high cliffs and stuff like that. The walls make for good choke points and ways to make smaller maps seem bigger by breaking up LOS. Overall, I think that the castles will still see a lot of use, but not really in "Defend Your Castle" type games.

[Sapper]

Well said Bobbo. My thoughts exactly on the castle.

1. The door is rediculous, you waste to much time trying to bash it down.
2. Walls need to be 1 wall section high or the defender will crush you.
3. The castle definitely changes your draft strategy.

[hex706f726368]

Originally Posted by Bobbo

I guess when Charos finally took the walls and singlehandedly destroyed all the defenders we also had a good time

We had the same exp with Charos. The trick is to not give him a spot to land in.

[Rÿchean]

Thanks for posting the pics Funrun; the map looks very cool

and at the very least it sounds like you guys enjoyed the game

--

I think there are things that can be done to include castles in competitive play.

I took a stab at it:

(note: no door)


download PDF here (1 MS,1 Lava, 1 Castle, 1 Road)

http://www.heroscapers.com/download/index.php?dlid=120

yeah well shameless plug of my map; give it a whirl, it can be fun with out all the laying seige to the castle, beat the door down stuff

[CornPuff]

that map looks awesome ry. I will have to get a castle set now just to make it

but in all seriousness, get your own map thread :P

[Rÿchean]

yeah i am pluggin this biatch where ever i can....

[GaryLASQ]

very nice pictures funrun, and good idea with the dueling castles and creative startzones. thanks for sharing.