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  #49  
Old November 8th, 2018, 10:23 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

Both @IAmBatman and @laughing matter have shown some interest in the character...any thoughts on this direction?
Quote:

NAME = SHADE THE CHANGING MAN
SECRET IDENTITY = RAC SHADE

SPECIES = METAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CHANGING MAN
PERSONALITY = MERCURIAL

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 3
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = ???


MADNESS VEST
Shade adds 3 to his attack and defense against Insane figures. After Shade rolls attack or defense dice against an adjacent Unique Hero, if you rolled at least 1 blank, you may choose an Order Marker on that Unique Hero's card. Switch it with an Order Marker on this card. Both players may reveal these Order Markers normally on their turn instead of their other Order Marker of the same number. At the end of the round, all Order Markers moved by this special power return to the player who controlled the Order Markers before they were moved.

METAN POSSESSION
At the start of each round after Shade has been destroyed, before Order Markers are placed, choose a figure on the battlefield with only 1 life remaining and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll X or higher, destroy that figure, remove all Order Markers from this card, and immediately place Shade on the space that figure occupied.
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  #50  
Old November 8th, 2018, 10:27 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

I don't think this is a very accurate depiction of the character, but it is pretty cool.
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  #51  
Old November 8th, 2018, 11:04 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
I guess for me the readings have almost always been accurate and negative so I am happier to not know.
I also have a interest in all things magic.
My reading of you was neither Magic or negative. But you have stated that it was apparently very accurate.

But then again perhaps that is my innate magical power.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #52  
Old November 9th, 2018, 06:43 AM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

Perhaps.
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  #53  
Old November 9th, 2018, 08:35 AM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqTrdptLRrs&t=45sI don't think this is a very accurate depiction of the character, but it is pretty cool.
This was amazing and what a cool concept for powers.

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  #54  
Old November 9th, 2018, 04:31 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Confred View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqTrdptLRrs&t=45sI don't think this is a very accurate depiction of the character, but it is pretty cool.
This was amazing and what a cool concept for powers.
It's at least semi accurate. He's not quite as combative, and sometimes the stream just pulls him away, but his powers basically work like that. Just, not as flashy. He's a neurotic poet, not a fighter

life's short, why not make an impact on the world? make some peoples lives better, have a few good laughs, and then when it's all over go out with BANG!
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  #55  
Old November 9th, 2018, 04:49 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

Since we are going in a soft synergy direction for the JLD, with Constantine being a boon to d20 based powers and Zatanna helping blank rolling powers out, the idea of adding a 3rd web of soft synergy around knowing where your opponents OM's are could be a nice addition. Say Detective Chimp takes a look at an opponents OM during the OM1 reveal, learns where the 3 is, then another figure can perform some kind of trick during the OM2 reveal based on 'guessing' where an unrevealed OM3 is located at. Just something to consider.

Just a general statement on the blank related powers, a word of caution not to make the blank related power too powerful or too easy to achieve. Zatanna is going to make manipulating the number of blanks rolled easier to do on a thing that traditionally only occurs 1 in 6 times, so balancing the power for when she is in play and not in play will take a bit of work but it can be done.
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  #56  
Old November 9th, 2018, 05:20 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Since we are going in a soft synergy direction for the JLD, with Constantine being a boon to d20 based powers and Zatanna helping blank rolling powers out, the idea of adding a 3rd web of soft synergy around knowing where your opponents OM's are could be a nice addition. Say Detective Chimp takes a look at an opponents OM during the OM1 reveal, learns where the 3 is, then another figure can perform some kind of trick during the OM2 reveal based on 'guessing' where an unrevealed OM3 is located at. Just something to consider.
I was hoping Shade could be one way to fill that hole. His Madness Vest allows you to swap your X for an opponent's OM, so if you know where the 3 is, you can run in and steal it, taking your opponent's turn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Just a general statement on the blank related powers, a word of caution not to make the blank related power too powerful or too easy to achieve. Zatanna is going to make manipulating the number of blanks rolled easier to do on a thing that traditionally only occurs 1 in 6 times, so balancing the power for when she is in play and not in play will take a bit of work but it can be done.
Fair point. Maybe Madness Vest (and some of the similar powers) need to be changed to "if he inflicts a wound, or rolls a blank" or something like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confred View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqTrdptLRrs&t=45sI don't think this is a very accurate depiction of the character, but it is pretty cool.
This was amazing and what a cool concept for powers.
It's at least semi accurate. He's not quite as combative, and sometimes the stream just pulls him away, but his powers basically work like that. Just, not as flashy. He's a neurotic poet, not a fighter
I think there are two big differences to me.
The first being that Milligan's Shade usually uses his powers more cerebrally. He can make constructs yeah, but they're not his main thing, and when he does they're often very life-like and used to deceive people. When it comes to combat he usually resorts to either an energy blast or energy fist. Not as flashy, just like you said. The short treats him more like a Green Lantern, which I think worked better for its medium.
The second is that The Madness in the comic is treated more as this natural source of power, almost like the Speed Force, and warps the reality around it in a way everybody can usually see and feel. In the cartoon, he's shown fighting madness in more of the traditional sense. Once again, I think that was a far better choice for a minute long short.
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  #57  
Old November 10th, 2018, 01:47 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

I like the ideas for Shade, and I always felt like my design was still a little half-baked, but I like Mr Nobody's version quite a bit. I think something like this would be very good with the JLD synergy we're thinking of here.

Quote:


NAME = SHADE THE CHANGING MAN
SECRET IDENTITY = RAC SHADE

SPECIES = METAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CHANGING MAN
PERSONALITY = MERCURIAL

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = ???


M VEST
Whenever Shade is adjacent to an Insane or Unstable figure, roll 1 additional attack die. After rolling any combat dice for Shade, for every 2 blanks rolled, you may choose an Order Marker on that figure's card. Switch it with an Order Marker on this card. Both players may reveal these Order Markers normally on their turn instead of their other Order Marker of the same number. At the end of the round, all Order Markers moved by this special power return to the player who controlled the Order Markers before they were moved.

MADNESS STREAM TELEPORTATION
At the end of each round, roll the 20-sided die for Shade, and each figure adjacent to the space Shade occupied at the end of the round. If you roll 1-3, place a wound on that figure's card. If you roll a 4 or higher, place that figure on any empty space exactly X spaces from its current location. Figures moved this way must be placed adjacent to Shade, if possible. Placed figures will not take leaving engagement attacks. If the chosen figure cannot be placed adjacent to Shade, instead of moving the chosen figure, place a wound on the figure's Army Card.

METAN POSSESSION
At the start of each round after Shade has been destroyed, before Order Markers are placed, choose a figure on the battlefield with only 1 life remaining and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll X or higher, destroy that figure, remove all Markers from this card, and immediately place Shade on the space that figure occupied.
I basically straight up stole some pieces of MrNobody's version and jammed it together with the stuff from my version that I thought would play well together. I really like how his resurrection power interacts with my Madness Stream Teleportation. I also tried to make the OM manipulation ability less abusable by dice manipulation, but still powerful. Hence, making the trigger harder to hit, but giving you more chances to hit it, and the ability to hit it multiple times.

Edit: I also made the resurrection power remove all markers form the card because I think that if it only took away OM's he'd still have all the wounds on his card and just immediately die again, lol!

life's short, why not make an impact on the world? make some peoples lives better, have a few good laughs, and then when it's all over go out with BANG!
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  #58  
Old November 10th, 2018, 02:33 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

Quote:
Originally Posted by laughing matter View Post
I like the ideas for Shade, and I always felt like my design was still a little half-baked, but I like Mr Nobody's version quite a bit. I think something like this would be very good with the JLD synergy we're thinking of here.

Quote:


NAME = SHADE THE CHANGING MAN
SECRET IDENTITY = RAC SHADE

SPECIES = METAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CHANGING MAN
PERSONALITY = MERCURIAL

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = ???


M VEST
Whenever Shade is adjacent to an Insane or Unstable figure, roll 1 additional attack die. After rolling any combat dice for Shade, for every 2 blanks rolled, you may choose an Order Marker on that figure's card. Switch it with an Order Marker on this card. Both players may reveal these Order Markers normally on their turn instead of their other Order Marker of the same number. At the end of the round, all Order Markers moved by this special power return to the player who controlled the Order Markers before they were moved.

MADNESS STREAM TELEPORTATION
At the end of each round, roll the 20-sided die for Shade, and each figure adjacent to the space Shade occupied at the end of the round. If you roll 1-3, place a wound on that figure's card. If you roll a 4 or higher, place that figure on any empty space exactly X spaces from its current location. Figures moved this way must be placed adjacent to Shade, if possible. Placed figures will not take leaving engagement attacks. If the chosen figure cannot be placed adjacent to Shade, instead of moving the chosen figure, place a wound on the figure's Army Card.

METAN POSSESSION
At the start of each round after Shade has been destroyed, before Order Markers are placed, choose a figure on the battlefield with only 1 life remaining and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll X or higher, destroy that figure, remove all Markers from this card, and immediately place Shade on the space that figure occupied.
I basically straight up stole some pieces of MrNobody's version and jammed it together with the stuff from my version that I thought would play well together. I really like how his resurrection power interacts with my Madness Stream Teleportation. I also tried to make the OM manipulation ability less abusable by dice manipulation, but still powerful. Hence, making the trigger harder to hit, but giving you more chances to hit it, and the ability to hit it multiple times.

Edit: I also made the resurrection power remove all markers form the card because I think that if it only took away OM's he'd still have all the wounds on his card and just immediately die again, lol!
Hmmm...too much text is going to be an issue with all three powers, but I'm sure we could find a way to cut some stuff.

I think he needs at least some range. He can shoot energy and makes that one big fist construct. Range 3-4 is perfect imo.

I want to keep the power name as Madness Vest, to leave the option open for the Ditko version, who has a different M Vest. Is there a reason why standing next to an Insane ally would boost his attack against non-Insane enemies? I don't recall anything like that ever happening, but I could be wrong there. I like adding Unstable, I almost did it myself. Maybe it would be good to also add Troubled? Crazy Jane, Mento, etc are the kinds of people Shade would end up fighting/helping, and it would be kind of cool to have some cross-pollination with the Vertigo properties. I also like the change to just an attack boost instead of attack+defense, that makes sense I think, although I think maybe a +2 to attack could be justified, instead of just +1. I don't like changing it to 2 blanks, honestly. Even rolling 6 attack dice (Base+2) he's only going to be rolling an average of 1 blank per roll. I'd like him to have at least a decent chance of using his big power, especially if you're throwing OMs on him. With this draft I feel like he'd always need Zatanna II, which isn't really my goal. I'm aiming for a fun solo unit that can play well on his own, but meshes with the JLD too.

I'm not a huge fan of the Madness Stream power either forcing teleportation or a wound. In the very early issues of the comic he basically gets tugged along by the Stream. But even by the end of the American Scream arc he has much better control of it, and doesn't have to go when it calls him. Past that, the whole concept of the Stream is played up much less as the series becomes more sedentary in Hotel Shade. I also don't really remember the Madness Stream ever really hurting anybody, so I don't know if it should be able to inflict wounds. Also, what is X defined as?

Good call on the Wound Marker thing in Metan Possession, I just wrote the wrong thing.

Honestly I think there needs to be a choice between Metan Possession and Madness Stream. I went with Metan Possession because I feel like it represents the whole Milligan run, whereas I think the Madness Stream is more of an early issues thing.

So with all that in mind, here's my thoughts. I'm not totally against some sort of Madness Stream power, but I also don't think it's absolutely essential.
Quote:


NAME = SHADE THE CHANGING MAN
SECRET IDENTITY = RAC SHADE

SPECIES = METAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CHANGING MAN
PERSONALITY = MERCURIAL

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 3
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = ???


MADNESS VEST
Whenever Shade attacks an Insane, Unstable, or Troubled figure, roll 2 additional attack dice. After rolling any combat dice for Shade, if you roll a blank, you may choose an Order Marker on that figure's card. Switch it with an Order Marker on this card. Both players may reveal these Order Markers normally on their turn instead of their other Order Marker of the same number. At the end of the round, all Order Markers moved by this special power return to the player who controlled the Order Markers before they were moved.

METAN POSSESSION
At the start of each round after Shade has been destroyed, before Order Markers are placed, choose a figure on the battlefield with only 1 life remaining and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll X or higher, destroy that figure, remove all Markers from this card, and immediately place Shade on the space that figure occupied.
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  #59  
Old November 10th, 2018, 04:19 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

It's been a while since I read Shade or did the write-up, so my reasoning for some things is gonna be fuzzy. I think I remembered the madness vest being powered by madness, which was my reasoning for the boost. The Madness stream seems like a very iconic power for him, especially for his time on the JLD, because he was basically used as a taxi for the team, which is a useful piece for any faction. I also remember the madness stream being a very dangerous thing for people not protected by the madness vest, hence the wounds, which play into the resurrection.


Also, X was supposed to be the number rolled, but it looks like it accidentally got cut out. My bad.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not against removing the madness stream, but I think it would be more useful to the figure itself, as well as the whole faction if we simplified and kept it, rather than if he lost it.

life's short, why not make an impact on the world? make some peoples lives better, have a few good laughs, and then when it's all over go out with BANG!
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  #60  
Old November 10th, 2018, 04:42 PM
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Re: Justice League Dark Brainstorming

Ah, no, it’s the Richard Swift villain Shade I’m interested in.

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