Heroes of 'Scape (RPG)

[Kaiyu]

Originally Posted by Therion

Error list:

Anything marked with an * is a suggested revision for clarity.

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Page 1

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*Double Attack
When this figure attacks using a Normal attack, it may attack one additional time.

I already state its Normal Attack only. Or is the sentence order the issue?

Chain Grab
A higher cost version is listed in the text, but not the title.

Removed the higher cost version. If you want a range of 4 on your Chain Grab you have to wait to be an Arachnomancer and use Spider Web Grab.

Surrounded Defense
Like the Cave Dweller, it boosts attack.

Fixed, thanks!

Page 2

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*Defy Death
The text should be changed to read: If this figure would be destroyed by a Normal or Special attack...

I wanted to include destruction by Special Powers, including self-destruction.

Armoc Armor needs a skill point cost.

1 Skill Point.

Page 3

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If Greater Cleave is used on a two-spaced figure, which space can the cleaving figure move to?

Added "If this figure is a small or medium figure..."clause. There aren't any small or medium two based figures right?

Page 4

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Dragon Breath
Range should read "Special".

Changed that and added "Choose [3, 4, 4] spaces in a straight line..."

Arrow Grut Command
The Arrow Gruts need bonding options; as written, they remain fairly useless.

Blade Gruts cost 2 Skill Points per squad where as Arrow Gruts only cost 1. Yet they are both worth 40 points. My rough skill point estimation is 1 Skill Point = 25 Points. 25 Points 3 figures with a range of 6, move of 6 and disengage isn't too bad.

*Raptor Charge/Swog Maul should have the first sentience removed, and the following added at the end:
After using (Power Name), this figure may make a Normal attack.

What if the Hero wants to make a special attack or a special ability that calls for "instead of attacking." Eventually working on a Dismount Special Power, so this wording choice will make more sense once that's ready.

Page 5

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*Double Attack as on page 1.

Still not sure what the problem is.

One Shield Defense
Add a space after "Defense". Also, should this instance modify the figure's life?

No. The only instances of Life +1 for one shield Defense should be on the Gladiator Sub Class, which I named Gladiator's One Shield Defense. This was to balance the fact that they never roll more than 3 or 4 Defense, so its not as useful. Where else does it say Life +1?

Page 6

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No errors here.

Page 7

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*Double Attack as on page 1.

Page 8

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Animate Dead
This power refers to previously destroyed Zombies of Morindan, but no power to acquire them exists. Also, this power affects Undead. That should be addressed.

You don't have to purchase the Zombies to have them raised from the dead. It now reads "... you may place one Zombie of Morindan on the space the figure previously occupied. This Zombie is now under your control. You may only have 6..."

I also intended it to affect Undead too. So if your Zombie is kill you have the chance to immediately raise it back.

(in hindsight this may be too powerful... revision consideration is underway.)

Page 9

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The only error was the Phantom Knight's Possess.

Fixed last night.

Page 10

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Bound
Hit and run tactics are incredibly useful in Heroscape; just look at the Silver Surfer. And, characters can have higher move and range in this system. I think this should be removed.

It usually is 4 skill points unless the figure is melee, and some form of Disengage is required for effective use. But I will put a red flag on this special power.

Page 11

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Bound
See Bound on Page 10.

Ranger has to buy Tactical Disengagement, plus he only has 5 Range. Rogue has no problem with Bound because he is melee AND has to buy disengage. I will still have the red flag up for it though.

Concealment
This should be changed to the official wording for concealment.

I guess I can... I'm not sure why. They say the same thing and the wording I choose follows suit with the rest of Heroscape. Wording from Wave 10 and on is a little inconsistent with its predecessor.

Strafe
See Bound on Page 10.

Strafe I don't nearly have as much of a problem with because it does not actually add to your Movement like Silver Surfer does, you have to split it up. We learned from Moriko that 3 Move while attacking before, during, or after isn't enough movement.

Agile Attack
See Bound on Page 10.

Bound
See Bound on Page 10.

Disengage
The wording should be changed to the official version.

Fixed. Thanks.

Page 12

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Double Attack
There are two instances of Double Attack on this page, both for the same cost. However, one is -2 Attack, the other is -1.

Should be the Attack -2 one. Wow, this text starts to blur together after awhile

Tracking
Should be changed to the official wording.

I'm actually going to stick with the one I have because that's almost word for word aligned with "Wait Then Fire." As mentioned above, Wave 10 is not consistent with its predecessors.

Agile Attack
See Bound on Page 10.

Bound
See Bound on Page 10.

Page 13

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Pounce
The part about "Destroy this Figure" is even worse than normal. I can't see myself taking this power often, and I'd use it even less.

Yea...*sigh*... yea... but I'm not sure what else to do without making it overpowered. I'll add it to my to-do list.

Page 14

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Lumbering Bully
The wording should be changed to "When attacking with this figure using a Normal attack...

Fixed. I also changed it to Attack +1.

One Shield Defense
Remove the section after the comma, and add "the most wounds this figure can take from that attack is one."

Fixed. Thanks.

Page 15

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Vengeful Hunt
This is both confusing and weak. As written, if you attack figure #1, then are attacked by figure #2 who inflicts wounds, you couldn't get the bonus attack against figure #2 because you attacked figure #1. It's also (very) weak compared to Wounded Rage. I'd suggest giving the White Dragon access to the 2-point version of Wounded Rage. (And only the 2-point version.)

Good point. What about this instead: "If this figure is attacked by an opponent's figure..."

Page 16

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See page 15.

Page 17

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You have a Level 3 Special Powers header at the end of the page.

A remnant of Alpha version

Page 18

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Goblins are listed as having access to the Druid and Elementalist schools, but aren't listed as being able to enter the Wizard class.

It does on the Game Guide, but not the Wizard Class sheet. My bad.

Mind Link
This power is only good if you have two other players using Wizards. Perhaps a power that gives you some of the weaker Elf wizards (like Arkmer) as followers?

Just because you haven't seen a game that big doesn't mean it can't happen besides this game has a brighter future than just dinking around with 3-4 Heroes against some Heroscape squaddies. That's just for some easy playtesting. Eventually these Heroes will be mixed in with regular figures, more than just a few Heroes, and up against other Heroes. All in due time...

Warforged Resolve
There is no defense penalty resulting from this; as written, a first level Wizard with this is harder to kill than a first level Warrior with their version.

It should be Defense -2. That's so strange because there's a Defense -2 on my document, but I don't recall ever changing it

The Fire Magic school is useless against Lava Resistant figures. I'd like to point out that figures with Lava Resistant aren't immune to Burning Breath or Majestic Fires...

Bah. You have teammates to take care of guys with Lava Resistance. Buy Arcane Bolt or Magic Arrow if you're that worried. Like I mentioned to someone before, if you're running a Wizard by itself in the first place, then you have worse things to worry about.

Meteor Shower
I think it should be changed to affect only enemy figures, otherwise your party may just hate you.

fine....

Page 19

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Animate DeadSee page 8. Also, the second and third versions should be changed to read as follows:
Animate Dead 2
As Animate Dead, except on a 13 or higher, you may place a Shade of Bleakwoode on the destroyed figure's space instead of a Zombie of Morindan. You may only have 3 Shades of Bleakwoode under your control at one time.
Animate Dead 3
As Animate Dead 2, except that on a 16 or higher, you may place a Phantom Knight on the destroyed figure's space instead of a Zombie of Morindan or Shade of Bleakwoode. You may only have 3 Phantom Knights under your control at one time.

The wording is intentional, that way if you already have 3 shades or 3 PKs, you can still summon Zombies.

Shocking Grasp
Two separate versions exist on this page at different costs; they need to be combined.

The one with Attack -1 and one Skill Point is the right one.

Page 20

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Entangled Marker
The last sentence should be replaced with: After taking a turn with a figure with Entangled Markers on its card, remove all Entangled Markers from its card.

The whole thing is screwy. I'm thinking of replacing the system to place the Entangled Marker on the figure itself instead...

Entanglement Strike
This should be revised to cost 2 with no lower cost options, and be automatic. You already roll a d20 for Engagement Strike; rolling one for this power just makes it worth less.

But even a failed Engagement Strike calls for an Entanglement Strike roll.

Nature's Wrath
See Meteor Shower on page 18.

Thorn Entanglement
This needs a point on your turn for activation. Also, if all Entanglement Markers are removed at the end the figure's turn, then this makes Shroud of Leaves useless, except against enemy Druids.

Added "Instead of attacking with this figure..."

And Shroud of Leaves still works on Evergreen Tress and Jungle Terrain.

Page 21

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Evasion
Should be changed to reflect official wording.

Fixed.

Master's Influence
The power should be changed to: All Monk Squad figures you control within 2 clear sight spaces of this figure...

Fixed.

Surrounded Defense
It adds attack dice.

Fixed.

Agile Attack
See Bound on Page 10.

Bound
See Bound on Page 10.

Agile Attack
See Bound on Page 10.

Bound
See Bound on Page 10.

Saber Storm
The Attack listing reads 1, 2, or 3, but the text says 1 or 2 until all 4 have been rolled.

Changed to "...and attack by rolling 1, 2, or 3 attack dice until it has rolled all attack dice."

Page 22

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No errors found.

Comments in Red.

*Phew* Making me work Therion Thanks a lot for that man. You're helping me a lot, and even parts I wouldn't have thought needed work when they were issues of clarity.

[gorthan313]

For Pounce, maybe you could make the penalty for not instantly destroying the figure be something like this: If you do not destroy the target figure, place this figure adjacent to the target, and place X wound marker(s) on this card.

[Therion]

Originally Posted by kaiyu0707

Comments in Red.

*Phew* Making me work Therion Thanks a lot for that man. You're helping me a lot, and even parts I wouldn't have thought needed work when they were issues of clarity.

Not a problem. There's not much in the game guide, but here's what I found:

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Page 1

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Just the suggested challenge issue, which was pointed out by Fen Hydra in post #367, and addressed by yourself in post #369

Page 2

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This one is clean.

Page 3

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Outsider Nature on the Eladrin would be correct drawing from 3.5e Dungeons and Dragons, but in 4e, the Eladrin are Fey. By 3.5e rules, Fey can be raised and resurrected as normal. In 4e, all creatures can be raised/resurrected.

Unholy Body
This power should read:
Wound markers cannot be removed from this card using powers on any non-Undead army card.

Page 4

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There is a "none" next to the Mind Flayer. I assume this is from copy pasting the Mind Flayer race from page 3.

Page 5

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Clean.

Page 6

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Under Drow, it references figures for the Wizard class. I assume this should read Arachnomancer. Also, the Lizardfolk is one indent too far to the left, putting it with the Elf classes.

Page 7

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No figures are listed for the Ogre.

EDIT: In your second-to-last post, you credited me with those quotes; I, however, am not so awesome as to take credit for those ideas.

Originally Posted by Gorthan313

For Pounce, maybe you could make the penalty for not instantly destroying the figure be something like this: If you do not destroy the target figure, place this figure adjacent to the target, and place X wound marker(s) on this card.

Pounce Special Attack [1, 2, 4]
Range [3, 4,4]. Attack [5, 5, 6]
Choose a non-adjacent small or medium figure in range whose base is not higher or lower than 5 levels from the base of this figure. If the figure is destroyed by Pounce Special Attack, immediately place this figure on the space the defending figure occupied. If the figure is not destroyed, place one wound marker on this card. The player who controls the defending figure must then place this figure on any empty space adjacent to the defending figure.

How's that look?

Also, with Animate Dead, I meant for my version to be able to be used individually. So you when you roll for Animate Dead 3, on an 8+, you get a Zombie. On a 13+, you get a Zombie or a Shade. On a 16+, you get a Zombie, Shade or Phantom Knight.

With the power as is, it becomes less useful with the higher-costed versions. I'd rather have Zombies on an 8+ than PKs on a 16+. One, I get 65% of the time. The other? 35%. Not so hot.

[Kaiyu]

Here are some of the controversial special powers that were brought up in Therion's error report

Arrow Grut Command [1, 2, 3]
Start the game with [3, 6, 9] Arrow Gruts under your control

Without proper bonding is this power really worth it? Both Blade Gruts and Arrow Gruts cost 40 points. Blade Grut Command costs 2 skill points each while Arrow Gruts only cost 1 each. Do you still think the low cost justifies it? What are your thoughts? Would you buy the Arrow Gruts at this cost?

Animate Dead [1, 2, 3]
Affects Undead...

A single Zombie doesn't scare anyone. And the Shades of Bleakwoode aren't that useful. The Phantom Knights are tough though. After anything dies within 8 clear sight spaces, including your summoned Undead, there's an 65% chance to for it to turn into a Zombie, 40% to become a Shade of Bleakwoode, and 25% chance to become a Phantom Knight. "Does not affect Undead" clause may be necessary. Has anyone given this power a try?

Bound, Agile Attack, Strafe, etc..

The Silver Surfer with his Hyper Speed 5 is really powerful, but Silver Surfer also has Stealth Flying. If these figures have any form of disengage they usually have to pay for it, and except for the Orc Archer, they are just melee. A friend of mine had a Dwarf Rogue with Agile Attack, but he never even used it. He usually moved where he wanted to be in the first movement, so he didn't need to move anymore after attacking. Anyone give this power a try yet?

Pounce Special Attack [1, 2, 4]
Range [3, 4, 4]. Attack [5, 5, 6]
... if this attack fails, this figure is destroyed.

Like gorthan suggested, have it inflict a wound instead of destroy, but the mechanics for placing your Hero after failure is difficult to work with. I'll give that a shot. Would you buy Pounce Special Attack if it only inflicts 1 or 2 wounds? Would that be overpowered?

Vengeful Hunt 2:
If this figure is attacked by an opponent’s figure with a normal or special attack, you may add 1 die to this figure’s Attack when attacking that figure with a normal attack. This figure may not use Vengeful Hunt if it attacks any other figure.

It used to be if you take a wound that Vengeful Hunt would activate instead of just getting attacked. I think that's what I meant in the first place, but does this fix it you think? Would you purchase this skill?

[Chardar]

So far as the gruts go you could always make an orc champion character. You could also make beast a class for cave dweller. That would help make the gruts a lot more useful, if not overpowered.

[Kaiyu]

Originally Posted by Chardar

So far as the gruts go you could always make an orc champion character. You could also make beast a class for cave dweller. That would help make the gruts a lot more useful, if not overpowered.

You know what I just thought of actually...

Swog Rider Command [1, 2, 3]
At the start of this game place [1, 2, 3] Swog Riders in this figure's starting zone. These figures are now under your control.

I feel kind of dumb for not including that already...

[Therion]

Originally Posted by kaiyu0707

Here are some of the controversial special powers that were brought up in Therion's error report

Without proper bonding is this power really worth it? Both Blade Gruts and Arrow Gruts cost 40 points. Blade Grut Command costs 2 skill points each while Arrow Gruts only cost 1 each. Do you still think the low cost justifies it? What are your thoughts? Would you buy the Arrow Gruts at this cost?

Honestly? No. I can put an order marker on me, and use Raptor Charge and Spiral Slash, or make 3 attacks of 1. Which would you do?

A single Zombie doesn't scare anyone. And the Shades of Bleakwoode aren't that useful. The Phantom Knights are tough though. After anything dies within 8 clear sight spaces, including your summoned Undead, there's an 65% chance to for it to turn into a Zombie, 40% to become a Shade of Bleakwoode, and 25% chance to become a Phantom Knight. "Does not affect Undead" clause may be necessary. Has anyone given this power a try?

I completely misunderstood. Then the power text needs cleared up, 'cause I thought it was only on a 16 or higher that I got anything.

The Silver Surfer with his Hyper Speed 5 is really powerful, but Silver Surfer also has Stealth Flying. If these figures have any form of disengage they usually have to pay for it, and except for the Orc Archer, they are just melee. A friend of mine had a Dwarf Rogue with Agile Attack, but he never even used it. He usually moved where he wanted to be in the first movement, so he didn't need to move anymore after attacking. Anyone give this power a try yet?

It really shines on a Ninja Kyrie with Shuriken Special Attack, Critical Strike, Bound and Agile Attack. And just for good measure, Vanishing Ninja and Smoke Bomb.

Like gorthan suggested, have it inflict a wound instead of destroy, but the mechanics for placing your Hero after failure is difficult to work with. I'll give that a shot. Would you buy Pounce Special Attack if it only inflicts 1 or 2 wounds? Would that be overpowered?

I edited a version in my post above this one not too long ago.

It used to be if you take a wound that Vengeful Hunt would activate instead of just getting attacked. I think that's what I meant in the first place, but does this fix it you think? Would you purchase this skill?

My problem is with that last line; if you attack any other figure, or any other figure after being attacked by the opponent's figure?

I assume it's the last one. Change the text to reflect it, and it should work.

[Kaiyu]

I guess for the Arrow Gruts its all about the situation. Are you running into a mob of squad figures, or are you defending from atop a castle. If you're defending a castle its zero attacks of zero versus 3 attacks of 2 at 6 range. The Arrow Gruts give you the accessibility to range that you wouldn't normally have as an Orc Champion. Is the option worth 1 point to you, even if you might not usually take it?

No Ninja Kyrie yet, but I see your point. I think its only something that can be proven in play though. I'll make it a point to make my only Hero I've created (Human Rogue) buy Bound and/or Agile Attack.


Okay, maybe I should clear up Animate Dead before we go around changing things. Something dies within 8 clear sight spaces, roll the d20. At Level 3, you roll a 16 or higher, you can place a Zombie, Shade, OR PK in its place. 8-12 is only a Zombie. Lets say you choose to always place the highest costed unit if you have the roll. Once you have 3 PK's, you still roll 16 or higher and you can still place a Shade. Have all 3 Shades and you can place all 6 Zombies. If you get enough good rolls and few of your summoned units die you will end with 6 Zombies, 3 Shades, and 3 PK's maximum. But of course you have to place an Order marker to actually take a turn with them unless I give Necromancer a power like Kurrok's Master of the Elements.

[Flame Gryphon]

kaiyu?
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=33237
Look's like GreyOwl himself likes your idea.

[Therion]

Originally Posted by kaiyu0707

I guess for the Arrow Gruts its all about the situation. Are you running into a mob of squad figures, or are you defending from atop a castle. If you're defending a castle its zero attacks of zero versus 3 attacks of 2 at 6 range. The Arrow Gruts give you the accessibility to range that you wouldn't normally have as an Orc Champion. Is the option worth 1 point to you, even if you might not usually take it?

No Ninja Kyrie yet, but I see your point. I think its only something that can be proven in play though. I'll make it a point to make my only Hero I've created (Human Rogue) buy Bound and/or Agile Attack.

It works best with Dagger Throw. (Or similar ranged.)

Originally Posted by kaiyu0707

Okay, maybe I should clear up Animate Dead before we go around changing things. Something dies within 8 clear sight spaces, roll the d20. At Level 3, you roll a 16 or higher, you can place a Zombie, Shade, OR PK in its place. 8-12 is only a Zombie. Lets say you choose to always place the highest costed unit if you have the roll. Once you have 3 PK's, you still roll 16 or higher and you can still place a Shade. Have all 3 Shades and you can place all 6 Zombies. If you get enough good rolls and few of your summoned units die you will end with 6 Zombies, 3 Shades, and 3 PK's maximum.

Alright. That works.

Originally Posted by kaiyu0707

But of course you have to place an Order marker to actually take a turn with them unless I give Necromancer a power like Kurrok's Master of the Elements.

There is Rebuke Undead. But it's only one figure, and it has a 25% chance of killing your figure. As Rebuke Undead in 3.5e gave a chance of making Undead cower, (or if you beat their HD by 2, you could command them...) it should be like Master of the Elements.


EDIT: I missed an error with the Elementalist school of magic; under the Fire Elemental, Earth Elemental, and Water Elemental powers, you wrote it as giving Air Elementals.

Double Attack works just fine as is, I just think it sounds better worded the other way.

With Defy Death, you mention wounds at the end. How about this instead:

Defy Death 1
If this figure would be destroyed, before removing this figure from the battlefield, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 15 or higher, this figure is not destroyed instead.

The Cave Dweller gives +1 life with its One Shield Defense.

I missed the part of Entanglement Strike where it works if you fail Engagement Strike. My bad.

[Kaiyu]

Originally Posted by Therion

There is Rebuke Undead. But it's only one figure, and it has a 25% chance of killing your figure. As Rebuke Undead in 3.5e gave a chance of making Undead cower, (or if you beat their HD by 2, you could command them...) it should be like Master of the Elements.

Rebuke undead is actually an Evil Cleric ability, so the Necromancer shouldn't even have it. I intended it to be an power for the Necromancer to use against the opponent's Undead. It seemed kinda silly if he's a Necromancer and has got no advantage over hostile undead. I'll make a Command Undead ability I think.

Command Undead 2:
Instead of taking a turn with this figure, you may take a turn with one Undead Squad that you control. Any figure that is taking a turn instead of this figure must be within clear sight of this figure before moving.

[Therion]

Originally Posted by kaiyu0707

Command Undead 2:
Instead of taking a turn with this figure, you may take a turn with one Undead Squad that you control. Any figure that is taking a turn instead of this figure must be within clear sight of this figure before moving.

Change that last part to "Any figure that moves or attacks using this ability must be within clear sight of this figure before moving."

Just 'cause of Horde Movement.

Oh, and Power Level headers are also on page 8, and 18 under Fire Magic.

And you need a line between Dying Swipe and Lurk in Shadows on the Death Knight, page 8.

EDIT: Goblin Wizards seem a little weak compared to the Human Wizards. Humans have sole access to some Schools, but Goblins get none of that.