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  #61  
Old November 18th, 2022, 01:17 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

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Originally Posted by artemiscorso View Post
I guess there is, but to me it just doesn't feel like it. The figures are upainted and this magnifies that they are blurry thematically. If I didn't have either set I would rather have the 30 RotV figures.
Wow, this blew my mind when I read it. Me too. I have a question for people, I am genuinely curious.

Let's say Hasbro had decided to "relaunch" Heroscape with a re-release of the SOTM and ROTV sets instead of a new "Age" and lore reboot. One big set with the exact same (painted) units and terrain. What would we think a fair price would be here in 2022 for that amount of game material?

(Ignore the fact that all old fans already have the stuff and wouldn't want it on re-release. I'm only curious about perceived "value" in comparison to asking price.)
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  #62  
Old November 18th, 2022, 09:34 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

@CapAp When RotV was on the shelf I remember multiple folks in the industry say that it was shocking it wasn't a $100 box (that was 2007ish). With that in mind, I would say at least $150 for RotV on the shelf today.

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  #63  
Old November 18th, 2022, 10:34 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

The important question is, what are our chances of getting the rest of the cards revealed, when the dust settles?

Should I start a new thread called AOA: Card News?
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  #64  
Old November 18th, 2022, 10:46 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

I think most of the important points were covered, but I was pretty skeptical of this whole thing from the start. My main concerns were:

-It seemed like there wasn't a lot of continuity/synergy between the new stuff and the old Heroscape. I know it's really hard to get (official) old Heroscape now, so moving forward was needed to some degree. But for those of us that have moved on to other games, there wasn't a lot of pull to get into this if our old collection didn't have much play to it. I know it was technically compatible, but it didn't seem like it interacted very well with the old stuff, from what I saw.

- Why was this thing a Hasbro Pulse product? That's more of a rhetorical question, because we know why: Hasbro did not think this product could compete in the open market on its own merits. Any maybe they were right. The market and economy has shifted a lot since Heroscape was cancelled, much less was first released. Heroscape's original niche was a simpler, more accessible game with prepainted minis that was less intimidating to get into than some of the big boys on the block (i.e. Games Workshop stuff). This game no longer fully occupied that niche, so I don't know how well it would have done, long term.
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  #65  
Old November 18th, 2022, 10:49 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

It wasn't meant to compete in the open (general) market, but in the hobby market. I think if it had been marketed through a regular crowd funding platform, and/or been done more responsively, it could have done just fine in that limited niche, and brought glory to the Hasbro name. (Just in case someone from there is reading this).
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  #66  
Old November 18th, 2022, 11:27 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyys View Post
@CapAp When RotV was on the shelf I remember multiple folks in the industry say that it was shocking it wasn't a $100 box (that was 2007ish). With that in mind, I would say at least $150 for RotV on the shelf today.
$150 set with RotV sized content would've been a better bet, IMO.

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  #67  
Old November 18th, 2022, 12:22 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Here me out:


$100-$125 AoA Starter Set + Shipping
2 Factions (of your choice)
20-22 fully painted miniatures in the style of OG 'Scape
Cardboard terrain and maybe a few hexes a la AotP
Original card design
6-8 wall pieces and just enough connectors
Other components to play

Add ons:
$60, 6-8 unit, fully painted factions
$60 Terrain packs (Diff. sets: Walls, Jungle, hexes, lava, snow, new stuff)

They hit $2 million plus easily.
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  #68  
Old November 18th, 2022, 12:49 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

I think I’d be more upset if they gave us a cardboard mat than unpainted figures honestly. Would I still back the project? probably yes

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  #69  
Old November 18th, 2022, 12:52 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

I think it's an incomplete game without the terrain. The idea of a mat is a good one if it comes with the normal terrain as well. The terrain is one of the biggest draws for new players, its what catches the eye first. Leaving it out I think makes it look like 'any other' war game to someone who isn't familiar.

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  #70  
Old November 18th, 2022, 01:04 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyys View Post
I think it's an incomplete game without the terrain. The idea of a mat is a good one if it comes with the normal terrain as well. The terrain is one of the biggest draws for new players, its what catches the eye first. Leaving it out I think makes it look like 'any other' war game to someone who isn't familiar.
I think some cardboard mats like AotP had along with some hexes would be great. I use the AotP mats for nearly every board I build now since they're so convenient. I had a lexan water mat years back too, since it's so easy to use.
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  #71  
Old November 18th, 2022, 01:12 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Hasbro's/AH's misallocation of priorities and resources (lore and apps instead of marketing) has been discussed extensively, but I haven't seen many specifics mentioned about the relationship between tooling, unique sculpts, and figure count. So, without further ado:

71 minis is a huge amount. This number has a higher price tag than is necessary when we consider that each sculpt is unique and requires its own tooling cost. So, 71 unique sculpts that require their own tooling.

The price tag could be decreased at least a little by including common units in the core set. Let's assume a structure like SotM in which the core set has two of each common squad, and each faction has their own common squad:
  • Pirate common squad (3 figures) x2 = 6 figures, 3 unique sculpts
  • Brood common squad (4 figures) x2 = 8 figures, 4 unique sculpts
  • Clockwork common squad (3 figures) x2 = 6 figures, 3 unique sculpts
  • Ironclad common squad (3 figures) x2 = 6 figures, 3 unique sculpts
  • Dryan common squad (3 figures) x2 = 6 figures, 3 unique sculpts
This totals out to 32 figures while only requiring tooling for 16 unique sculpts. This is before any Unique Heroes or Unique Squads are added to the mix (which I would argue that each faction wouldn't need more than five to eight unique sculpts, varying between heroes and squads). Just throwing out examples:
  • Pirates: 3 Heroes and 1 Unique Squad of 3 figures = 6 figures, 6 unique sculpts
  • Brood: 3 Heroes and 1 Unique Squad of 5 figures = 7 figures, 7 unique sculpts
  • Clockwork: 3 Heroes and 1 Unique Squad of 3 figures = 6 figures, 6 unique sculpts
  • Ironclad: 3 Heroes and 1 Unique Squad of 3 figures = 6 figures, 6 unique sculpts
  • Dryan: 7 Heroes (3 wizards, 4 familiars) = 7 figures, 7 unique sculpts
In isolation, this totals out to both 32 figures and 32 unique sculpts that need tooling.

Combining these hypothetical totals if common squads are included in a core set, we have 64 figures while only requiring tooling for 48 unique sculpts. That is 7 fewer figures than was offered in the Vanguard edition (room to include the SotM heroes) and 23 fewer unique sculpts that would need tooling. PLUS the added incentive for players/consumers to purchase multiple sets for more common squads.

I of course don't have all of the data and financial numbers, but with the cost of tooling reduced by about 30%, the buy-in price could (and should) be reduced to reflect that - $200? $175? $150 if they want to take (what I assume was) the successful loss leader approach of RotV, to on-board new consumers to the product.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a post scriptum to the above, if the above method was ever considered in an official capacity of production, there are several ways in which it could be implemented. The first could be the large single buy-in like Vanguard that includes everything under the sun. As has been said, though, the single bloated bundle has a steeper buy-in than smaller sets and has the disadvantage of turning away players who only want a small amount of the offering.

A second method would be to incorporate Warhammer-like battle sets. These would each focus on two factions and include more units for each faction. Let's say instead of 2x of the same common squad as in a Vanguard set, each faction gets 2x of three different common squads. And, of course, maybe some additional Heroes or Unique Squads. A benefit with this is that figure count can still be high due to more common squads while tooling costs are still relatively low (compared to a Vanguard set).

Yet another method would be, again like Warhammer, to produce single-faction sets. Only interested in the Clockwork Combine? Well, you could buy their Faction Box and get 2x of five different common squads, three different Unique Squads, and a handful of Heroes. Do you only like the Dryan? Same concept applies.

There are certainly options to make it work.

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  #72  
Old November 18th, 2022, 01:42 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

I always thought a good idea would have been to include 1copy of a common squad/uncommon hero per faction in the base set and let backers add on more copies. These copies would also be included with wave 1 of future expansions to let the retail copies also get more.

No extra tooling, only extra materials, and allows those who don't want to purchase more than 1 set of mostly uniques to up the total $ pledged.
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