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  #181  
Old February 21st, 2021, 06:02 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) (Public Feedback)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Quote:
Species = Human
Unique Hero
Class = Lord
Personality = Merciless
SIZE = medium 5

LIFE = 5
MOVE 5 / BASIC
RANGE 1 / BASIC
ATTACK 4 / BASIC
DEFENSE 4 / BASIC

??? POINTS

DISPLAY OF CRUELTY
Whenever Vlad or a figure with a range of 1 within 4 clear sight spaces attacks, if Vlad has destroyed at least 1 figure this round, the attacking figure adds 1 to their attack.


IMPALEMENT 13
After moving and before attacking, choose a small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the chosen figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.
I like this take and it's relatively similar to before. I can see him sitting in the same price as Taelord. I really like the aggressive frontline cheerleader take though, suits him well.
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  #182  
Old February 21st, 2021, 06:20 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) (Public Feedback)

A 180 points for a conditional, non-flying, non-bonding cheerleader? That's a hard pass from me. I wouldn't consider taking him over anything in the 180 point category to include Taelord himself.
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  #183  
Old February 21st, 2021, 06:34 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) (Public Feedback)

This is not one of my strengths, but my gut feeling is between 110-120.

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  #184  
Old February 21st, 2021, 06:34 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) (Public Feedback)

180 is probably a bit high given that he has a worse restriction than needing a revealed OM and the aura is double-sided anyway, but a +1A aura is definitely going to have to be well above 120 points, even limited to melee figures. Not necessarily because it's strong, but because Taelord was one of the most conservative pricings the original designers did and we don't want to overshadow him.

I do think that this version of Display of Cruelty loses out on some of the theme and feels a bit more generic, for what it's worth. That's partially in comparison to some of the other possible directions (IMO, this would be an okay spot to use markers in a really cool way with the legend that we're working with), but it's mostly because this version feels so evocative of Taelord. Vlad has much better offense and defense but worse mobility, so it's not like one supersedes the other, but they're a bit too similar in my honest opinion and we already have another offensive cheerleader in the box with Velkhor.
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  #185  
Old February 21st, 2021, 06:41 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) (Public Feedback)

Would giving him an attack debuff for opponents as discussed previously help the flavor?

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  #186  
Old February 21st, 2021, 07:19 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) (Public Feedback)

All good points. I'm seeing him around 150 in the design above, seeing as he has good damage potential vs hero/high defense figures even if his mobility is weaker than Taelord's. With Velkhor and the fish we have 2 cheerleaders already, and the likely hood is that a few of the other heroes have the potential to be cheerleaders, so we could always step away from that, or make him do something a little different. Perhaps:

CRUEL LEADER
If there is at least one opponent's figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Vlad, that opponent must subtract 3 from their Initiative roll.

A variation on Combat Leader, this could still play on the fear aspect but make him stand out as being the only initiative debuffer in the game. It still gives him a supportive aspect whilst not making him primarily a cheerleader.
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  #187  
Old February 23rd, 2021, 12:26 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) (Public Feedback)

I like the Display of Cruelty and Impalement power combo that we have now. He has a 77% chance of getting his aura on a single OM when attacking a 3D squadie (71% for 4D), and in a build with Ornak and Gruts I think he could be really good.

It feels very thematic to have him on OM 1, kill a squaddie with dominance if impale goes off, then follow up with squad figures inspired to have higher power attack to continue the assault.

I think he’s in the 120-140 range, and would probably pick 120. That’s where Raelin 2.0 sits who also has a good offensive power (Whirlwind) and a sometimes useful aura (1D at 6 spaces compared to a conditional 1A at 4 spaces), but has flying with 1 less A and D.
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  #188  
Old February 23rd, 2021, 12:43 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) (Public Feedback)

One thing to note is that the version of Display of Cruelty that I proposed still affects enemy figures, so he actually might be kinda countered by enemy melee.

Quote:
Species = Human
Unique Hero
Class = Lord
Personality = Merciless
SIZE = medium 5

LIFE = 5
MOVE 5 / BASIC
RANGE 1 / BASIC
ATTACK 4 / BASIC
DEFENSE 4 / BASIC

??? POINTS

DISPLAY OF CRUELTY
Whenever Vlad or a figure with a range of 1 within 4 clear sight spaces attacks, if Vlad has destroyed at least 1 figure this round, the attacking figure adds 1 to their attack.


IMPALEMENT 13
After moving and before attacking, choose a small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the chosen figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn.
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  #189  
Old February 23rd, 2021, 04:33 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) (Public Feedback)

Hopping in here to see lots of movement towards an attack aura, but I have some notable issues with it. Hitting a lot similar notes as Taelord (and Andask, let's not forget about C3V), this build does have distinctions. But I don't really like it as much I did at first.


For starters, we do already have an offensively oriented aura in the set (Velkhor) and having two in the same set just doesn't seem quite right. Also, I kinda struggle with the aura affecting enemy figures too. There's a few cards in the official game that didn't clarify ownership of figures, and muddling the waters for new players looking to get into the game certainly isn't going to help that. I'd much rather the aura only affect your own minis, but if it is geared to affect anyone with a range of 1, it should mention that it does affect opponents as well.


Basically, the powers play well together. But should we do it?


I also wanted to at least give my responses to a lot of power ideas that were spitballed around.


Quote:
ONSLAUGHT 1
After attacking with Vlad, if he destroyed a figure with his normal attack, Vlad may move up to 1 spaces and attack again. Vlad may continue using Onslaught until he does not destroy a figure.

I like the power, but I don't think like it for Vlad. I imagine he is meant to be more of of leader type fellow (who also happens to like wetting his sword), but not really a berserker style dude. I could see this power working on other stuff in the box though.


Quote:
REIGN OF TERROR
When Vlad destroys an opponent's figure, you may place a Marker on this card. When rolling for initiative, opponents must subtract 1 from their roll for each Marker on this card. A maximum of 3 Markers can be placed on this card.

This is actually close to my idea from the discord banter. My version didn't require Vlad to actually kill the minis, just that there were dead minis. So something like this:


Quote:
REIGN OF TERROR
When an opponent rolls initiative, they must subtract 1 from their initiative for each destroyed figure they control to a maximum of -3.

This would remove the bookkeeping for a very weak power that @Alexandros was concerned about. There's no bookkeeping other than looking to see if there are dead minis or not. It would also give the box a little bit of initiative manipulation, as we don't have a Dagmar proxy in the box to play with. And weak cheerleaders with some battlefield utility are a staple in HS.


Quote:
FOREST OF CORPSES
When Vlad destroys an opponent's figure, you may place a Marker on this card. Squad figures your opponents control subtract 1 from their attack dice when making a normal attack within X spaces of Vlad where X is the number of Markers on this card. A maximum of 3 Markers can be placed on this card.

Attack reduction is neat, and the power will be relevant within the set. I'm not sold on the aura from markers part, but it can work.


Quote:
Bringing this here because I think the idea has merit- a couple of us on discord had suggested some kind of attack debuff to convey Vlad being a lord, as well as to convey his rather menacing nature. A flat attack debuff obviously has its own baggage, so I'd propose something like subtracting an attack die from the roll of figures who did not start the turn adjacent to Vlad, or even from the roll of figures who have moved this turn.

I prefer this over the Forest of Corpses power above, it makes him unapproachable in general, although the fear dissipates when you realize its just a man with a sword.


Quote:
I'M NOT GOING ANYWHERE NEAR THAT CRAZY SOB
At the beginning of the game, each opponent must roll the 20-sided die once for each small, medium, or large figure they control. On a 20, that figure is destroyed.

This power plays more into Vlad being such a legendary douche that him being on the battlefield could cause them to route immediately. Like Mitonsoul, its swingy and probably won't do anything. But hey, Runa is a thing. As long as we charge a little bit for him, let him impale people and use good stats to convey the theme.


Quote:
How about just Impalement 13?

This steps on some figure's toes (Retiarius especially). It can work as long as he's more expensive.


Quote:
CRUEL LEADER
If there is at least one opponent's figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Vlad, that opponent must subtract 3 from their Initiative roll.

This isn't bad at all. It goes with my earlier idea of a weak cheerleading power but some decent battlefield utility.


But in general we have plenty of good options. I respect Sir Arctorius's opinion on the power combo, but I'm not sold that it should go in a Master Set (and certainly not when we already have Velkhor who offers something similar). I'd rather have more units doing different things than clusters of units filling similar army roles.

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  #190  
Old February 24th, 2021, 03:41 AM
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Re: [Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) (Public Feedback)

The current power names and some of @flameslayer93’s and other’s comments sparked my thoughts, and since it seems Vlad is still in the public feedback phase I’ll keep sharing/rambling (although admittedly I probably blur somewhat into the brainstorming territory vs. feedback territory).

Earlier on, I too had hoped that Vlad would only help his army or hurt his opponent but since it seemed he was going the direction of making every melee’s blood boil, I was resigning myself to accepting the current version.

I don’t think Vlad is quite at the Taelord level with his current melee-only buff that buffs both sides, but if there’s a desire to bring his cost down a little more, what about:

Quote:
IMPALEMENT 13
After moving and before attacking, choose a small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the chosen figure cannot roll defense dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn, and if it is destroyed this turn place a Cruelty Marker on this Army Card. At the end of the round, remove a Cruelty Marker from this Army Card.

DISPLAY OF CRUELTY
Whenever Vlad III or a figure with a range of 1 within 4 clear sight spaces of Vlad III attacks, if Vlad III has at least 1 Cruelty Marker on his card, the attacking figure adds 1 to their Attack Dice.
This puts a further limitation on Vlad in that, not only must he destroy a figure, but he must do so by way of a successful impaling. And, destroying a large or huge figure won’t trigger the extra Attack Die either.

Impalement is now no longer the same power as Whip.

The marker also takes care of memory.


Or . . . if you really want to get thematic with the impaling:
Quote:
IMPALEMENT 13
Start the game with [however many markers come with the set] Cruelty Markers on this card. After moving and before attacking, choose a small or medium figure adjacent to Vlad III. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, the chosen figure cannot roll Defense Dice if attacked by Vlad III this turn, and if it is destroyed replace the figure with a Cruelty Marker.

DISPLAY OF CRUELTY
Whenever a figure with a range of 1 within 4 clear sight spaces of a Cruelty Marker attacks, the attacking figure adds 1 to their Attack Dice. Treat Cruelty Markers as destructible objects with 1 Life and 0 Defense.
It doesn't necessarily limit him more, but it makes for even more interesting choices. “Do I spend an attack getting rid of my opponent’s attack potential?” or “Do I use my opponent’s cruelty against them and play a gambit to keep boosting my own offense”

It sets him apart from some other cheerleaders in that he’s setting up “hot zones” instead of being a mobile command unit, and there’s plenty of dials to turn if he’s too-effective/not-effective-enough.

Plus, I love the mental image since defeated figures are literally being represented on the battlefield which drips with theme even if the power were to change to an ally buff or opponent debuff or initiative adjustment or something entirely different instead of an everyone buff.

I do see how the current version of Vlad and Velkhor hit some similar notes and even have some reciprocal synergy but I think even with changes and tweaks, some of that feeling will be unavoidable because of their sculpts which both evoke a cruel egocentric master beyond concern for any lesser mortal.

Finally, I kind of like the idea of piked corpses causing an attack debuff on opponents as they become terrified, rather than causing extra attack die for anyone because they were incited or enraged.

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  #191  
Old February 25th, 2021, 09:42 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) (Public Feedback)

Unfortunately using in-world "destructible object" markers seems a little customy to me and I'm pretty against it.

I'd be open to Experience Markers on him though. Say, 2, and if you get 2 his aura turns on, turning him into a late-game terror.
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  #192  
Old February 25th, 2021, 09:54 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Vlad III (Sorin) (Public Feedback)

I've been a fan of experience markers in my personal designs. I like the idea of reducing his cost by tying his attack aura to experience markers that are only earned by playing him the way we intend to play him.

That, to me, is reminiscent of ROTV era designs where all of the units had a play direction in mind that was immediately obvious to anyone playing it.

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