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  #1  
Old May 18th, 2021, 02:55 PM
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Question re: Competitive Play and x5 and x6 Commons

Hello gamers,

Recently, I purchased a local guy's entire collection, which was 100% complete (and then some!). The collection included 1x (at least) of every unique, and 3x of every common, plus 4-to-6 copies of each terrain expansion, etc. But, after getting everything organized, I was wondering, for competitive play (500 pt.), what common squads are best to get x5 or x6 of? What competitive armies work best with more than x3 or x4 of a given "bread-and-butter" squad? At minimum, I have x3 of every common figure/unit, but I want to know what units to focus on, specifically, if I wanted to put some 500 point competitive armies together that are built predominantly around one kind of unit.

I also wanted to shoutout the guys who do the Casters of Valhalla Podcast. Over the past two weeks I have listened to almost every episode on Spotify! Keep them coming!

Anyway, having a blast 'scaping! Hope you guys/gals are as well!

-MSTDN
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  #2  
Old May 18th, 2021, 03:00 PM
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Re: Question re: Competitive Play and x5 and x6 Commons

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Originally Posted by Mastodon View Post
Hello gamers,

Recently, I purchased a local guy's entire collection, which was 100% complete (and then some!). The collection included 1x (at least) of every unique, and 3x of every common, plus 4-to-6 copies of each terrain expansion, etc. But, after getting everything organized, I was wondering, for competitive play, what common squads are best to get x5 or x6 of? What competitive armies work best with more than x3 or x4 of a given "bread-and-butter" squad. At minimum, I have x3 of every common figure/unit, but I want to know what units to focus on if I wanted to actually put some competitive armies together.

I also wanted to shoutout the guys who do the Casters of Valhalla Podcast. Over the past two weeks I have listened to almost every episode on Spotify! Keep them coming!

Anyway, having a blast 'scaping! Hope you guys/gals are as well!

-MSTDN
A good rule of thumb is 4x for a 4 man squad, and 5x if itís a 3 man. There are definitely exceptions though. You will never need more than 3x Templar or Groks for a standard 500 point army, and you may want as many as 7x Drones. For most of the really good B&B commons 5x is the sweet spot. (Knights/10th Reg/Heavies/4th)

Tournament Record:31-11 Online record:54-24
Trade Thread; Peoria IL Monthly Tournaments

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Old May 18th, 2021, 03:21 PM
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Re: Question re: Competitive Play and x5 and x6 Commons

See Collection Guide 2: Quantities (Fully Updated). But honestly don't really worry about this for what you should buy as if you are seriously going to play competitively most people will let you borrow, and if playing casually you can always proxy. For what armies you want more than 4 of, I would only say the "swarm" armies such as Vipers, Zombies, and Marro Drones & Dividers; or if you are really a cheap player then play 5-6 each of the B&B ranges squads of 4th Mass, 10th Reg, and Stingers (I have seen @@Rˇchean play 8 squads of Stingers once at Gencon). Also note the "Firestorm" has 7-10 Fire elementals and Kurrok and is probably the unit with most copies in competitive armies, unless you are @Matthias Maccabeus and want 20 Drow Chainfighters .

Last edited by lefton4ya; May 18th, 2021 at 03:36 PM.
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Old May 18th, 2021, 03:37 PM
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Re: Question re: Competitive Play and x5 and x6 Commons

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Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
See Collection Guide 2: Quantities (Fully Updated). But honestly don't really worry about this for what you should buy as if you are seriously going to play competitively most people will let you borrow, and if playing casually you can always proxy. For what armies you want more than 4 of, I would only say the "swarm" armies such as Vipers, Zombies, and Marro Drones & Dividers; or if you are really a cheap player then play 5-6 each of the B&B ranges squads of 4th Mass, 10th Reg, and Stingers (I have seen @@Rˇchean play 8 squads of Stingers once at Gencon). Also note the "Firestorm" has 7-10 Fire elementals and Kurrok and is probably the unit with most copies in competitive armies.
This list goes by pack, as in the NIB wave packs which would be an uncommon find at this time. I wish this list was updated to show the figures individually and not by pack but after reading through you can find this information although not as simple as by pack.

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  #5  
Old May 19th, 2021, 10:26 AM
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Re: Question re: Competitive Play and x5 and x6 Commons

Are proxies permitted in organized competitive play? I would assume direct 3d prints are allowed since they are the same shape and size, but I wonder about, for example, the Dwarves (Axegrinders) and Lizardfolk (Greenscales) I got that are just Wizkids D&D miniatures.

Just curious.
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  #6  
Old May 19th, 2021, 11:06 AM
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Re: Question re: Competitive Play and x5 and x6 Commons

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Originally Posted by Mastodon View Post
Are proxies permitted in organized competitive play? I would assume direct 3d prints are allowed since they are the same shape and size, but I wonder about, for example, the Dwarves (Axegrinders) and Lizardfolk (Greenscales) I got that are just Wizkids D&D miniatures.

Just curious.
3D prints are allowed, and if you have the correct DND minis for some of the DND waves those would be allowed as well. Actual proxies are generally not permitted in tournament play, but that would depend on each local scene honestly. I do not allow proxies at my events, but 3D prints are totally fine and I or other local players are willing to let people borrow figures if they donít have enough for the army they want to play, and thatís pretty common in most local scenes.

Tournament Record:31-11 Online record:54-24
Trade Thread; Peoria IL Monthly Tournaments

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  #7  
Old May 23rd, 2021, 12:00 AM
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Re: Question re: Competitive Play and x5 and x6 Commons

The only *Competitive* Units I would play as 5x or 6x are 4th Mass, Fire Elemental, Stingers, Dividers, and Rats.

Everything else IMO you would either never need more than 4x of, or it's not really that competitive. (I love Drones and Zombies as much as the next guy but I don't think they are competitive)
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Old May 23rd, 2021, 11:27 AM
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Re: Question re: Competitive Play and x5 and x6 Commons

The Drones and Zombies are the obvious answer, but one time I fielded six squads of Omnicron Snipers. I also fielded five Venoc Vipers once and had a blast. 10th Regiment and 4th Mass would probably work too; I've done four of each.

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Old May 23rd, 2021, 01:58 PM
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Re: Question re: Competitive Play and x5 and x6 Commons

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Originally Posted by Brewster View Post
The only *Competitive* Units I would play as 5x or 6x are 4th Mass, Fire Elemental, Stingers, Dividers, and Rats.

Everything else IMO you would either never need more than 4x of, or it's not really that competitive. (I love Drones and Zombies as much as the next guy but I don't think they are competitive)
At a 24 figure limit, most (if not all) of the top mele-bonding squads should fit into this category as well. Consider the following builds:
- Knights x5, Gilbert (455 points)
- Heavies x5, Grimnak, Nerak (520 points)
- Romans x5, Marcus, MBS, NGS (490 points)
- Dwarves x5, Mogrimm, Darak (530 points)
- Death Chasters x5, MBS, Nerak, Raelin (455 points)

Obviously you could always add more bonding heroes instead of extra squads, but for many of these in the 450 - 550 point range (pretty tournament standard) these are the base builds you'd pick if you had a point total near where each army fits in (i.e. Thorgrim/Finn is almost always worse than the 5th squad of Knights).
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Old May 25th, 2021, 12:57 AM
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Re: Question re: Competitive Play and x5 and x6 Commons

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Originally Posted by Chris Perkins View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewster View Post
The only *Competitive* Units I would play as 5x or 6x are 4th Mass, Fire Elemental, Stingers, Dividers, and Rats.

Everything else IMO you would either never need more than 4x of, or it's not really that competitive. (I love Drones and Zombies as much as the next guy but I don't think they are competitive)
At a 24 figure limit, most (if not all) of the top mele-bonding squads should fit into this category as well. Consider the following builds:
- Knights x5, Gilbert (455 points)
- Heavies x5, Grimnak, Nerak (520 points)
- Romans x5, Marcus, MBS, NGS (490 points)
- Dwarves x5, Mogrimm, Darak (530 points)
- Death Chasters x5, MBS, Nerak, Raelin (455 points)

Obviously you could always add more bonding heroes instead of extra squads, but for many of these in the 450 - 550 point range (pretty tournament standard) these are the base builds you'd pick if you had a point total near where each army fits in (i.e. Thorgrim/Finn is almost always worse than the 5th squad of Knights).
I'm willing to say that it might just be a personal preference, but I'd almost always opt for an additional bonding hero or some utility filler over the 5th squad of any of these. While I can see that the 5th squad makes the whole army cohesive, there's something to be said for your whole army not being all the same thing.

As an example, I would rather play

Eldgrim
Alistair
Gilbert
KoW x3

than

Gilbert
Kow x5

Is it objectively better to play more knights? I don't know, but having a heavy hitter hero makes me a bit more confident in matchups that could just melt squaddies.
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Old May 25th, 2021, 01:53 PM
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Re: Question re: Competitive Play and x5 and x6 Commons

5x of the 4-man commons is almost always the correct/best choice. However, it depends on where you're going to play. Indy Scape (GenCon, ScapeCon) has transitioned almost exclusively to 16 or 18 figure limits, making owning 5x Heavies, Knights, 4th, etc. unnecessary. Basically, know where you'll be playing, and build your collection accordingly (I sold off my 5th squads of all of these years ago, and I've never needed them since).

Last edited by OEAO; May 25th, 2021 at 02:15 PM.
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Old May 25th, 2021, 02:05 PM
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Re: Question re: Competitive Play and x5 and x6 Commons

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Originally Posted by OEAO View Post
5x of the 4-man commons are almost always the correct/best choice. However, it depends on where you're going to play. Indy Scape (GenCon, ScapeCon) has transitioned almost exclusively to 16 or 18 figure limits, making owning 5x Heavies, Knights, 4th, etc. unnecessary. Basically, know where you'll be playing, and build your collection accordingly (I sold off my 5th squads of all of these years ago, and I've never needed them since).
Yeah, a lot of tournaments I've played lately have been at 16 figure limits as well.
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