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  #49  
Old November 28th, 2018, 02:44 AM
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Wordsmithing

The disagreement is primarily around the words "decides".

I have played many, many games where the dice were a factor in the final decision. I can recall one game where dice were the factor that decided the game. (Classic league game against vegies dad. Nilf wrecked everything in a round and a half) I can recall many games where dice were a factor because I or my opponent made a decision that caused the dice to have greater weight than they could have. I can recall several games where a certain string of dice tilted the game to the point where it was difficult to win.

If we're using "decides" to mean "no one, not even a perfect Heroscape playing computer could win that game", then the number is probably not that far off from the quoted 1% (a number I'd quibble with only because I'm a math person).

If we're using "decides" to mean "has a larger factor on the game than skill did", I'd probably put that number higher (not too high, but probably somewhere in the 5-10% range).

Really though, getting hung up on the specific number (which is part of the reason I'd quibble over 1% ~_^) distracts from the major point. There are very few, if any games, where you couldn't have done something to make the dice less of a factor.

~Dysole, combining her undergraduate major and minor into one post
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  #50  
Old November 28th, 2018, 12:31 PM
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Re: Orc's Tips to Improve Fast

I agree with @Sir Heroscape 100%.

Dice introduce variability, and as much as a player would want to, that variability cannot be controlled, only influenced by the decisions a player makes. Therefore, it would be a logical fallacy to suggest that mistakes in a game cause a person to lose a game. IOW I don't think there is a way to measure and know definitively and without question that a player lost because of mistakes they made. You can have good reasons to think so (aka correlation), but you can't ever establish causation.

Sir H makes another solid point worth repeating. It is problematic to use the word "mistake" or "wrong" to describe decisions made in a game. I've seen plenty of moves that from my perspective were huge mistakes, yet they seemed to have no consequences for the player who made the mistake.

I do agree that blaming your dice is not helpful, and can lead you to overlook decisions that you made in the game that put you into an unfavorable position. But at the end of the day, the dice are a significant part of the game.

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  #51  
Old November 29th, 2018, 04:19 PM
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Re: Wordsmithing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
The disagreement is primarily around the words "decides".

I have played many, many games where the dice were a factor in the final decision. I can recall one game where dice were the factor that decided the game. (Classic league game against vegies dad. Nilf wrecked everything in a round and a half) I can recall many games where dice were a factor because I or my opponent made a decision that caused the dice to have greater weight than they could have. I can recall several games where a certain string of dice tilted the game to the point where it was difficult to win.

If we're using "decides" to mean "no one, not even a perfect Heroscape playing computer could win that game", then the number is probably not that far off from the quoted 1% (a number I'd quibble with only because I'm a math person).

If we're using "decides" to mean "has a larger factor on the game than skill did", I'd probably put that number higher (not too high, but probably somewhere in the 5-10% range).

Really though, getting hung up on the specific number (which is part of the reason I'd quibble over 1% ~_^) distracts from the major point. There are very few, if any games, where you couldn't have done something to make the dice less of a factor.

~Dysole, combining her undergraduate major and minor into one post

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  #52  
Old December 25th, 2018, 11:19 PM
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Re: Orc's Tips to Improve Fast

I just watched this short video, and although Scape isn't a wargame, the subject matter is very relevant to Scape. Enjoy and Merry Christmas!

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  #53  
Old December 26th, 2018, 09:13 PM
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Re: Orc's Tips to Improve Fast

That's a good watch. Thanks for posting!
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  #54  
Old January 2nd, 2019, 03:26 PM
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Re: Wordsmithing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysole View Post
If we're using "decides" to mean "no one, not even a perfect Heroscape playing computer could win that game", then the number is probably not that far off from the quoted 1% (a number I'd quibble with only because I'm a math person).

If we're using "decides" to mean "has a larger factor on the game than skill did", I'd probably put that number higher (not too high, but probably somewhere in the 5-10% range).
In both of the above examples, we have to assume the decisions of the opponent are fixed. I've played many many games where I would have had a very small chance of winning against an opponent making what I'd consider the correct decisions, but I had a much higher chance of winning if my opponent made what I'd consider mistakes. If that higher chance is somewhere around 50%, and I win, then was that game decided by dice, or by my opponent's mistakes? The correct answer is both, right?

At the risk of getting political, this thread reminds me a little of arguments about why Trump won in 2016. So many people want to say that a given thing (often the hacked e-mails or whatever) was or was not "the reason". The correct answer is that the election was really close, so many many different things were probably all, individually, necessary and decisive in making the difference. The same is true in a game of Heroscape. The dice decided every game where dice rolls were required, in some sense, but in any close game both the dice and the decisions were likely to have been decisive.

I will say that in my ridiculously long tally of competitive Heroscape games, I've only had 3 or 4 games where I thought I was a significant favorite going in, and I felt I lost primarily because of the dice. If that's what OEA1 means by 1%, then I'd support the 1% figure he cites.
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  #55  
Old January 3rd, 2019, 04:49 AM
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Re: Orc's Tips to Improve Fast

Wow! The first post of this thread was a real treasure to me. Orcs are my favorite
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  #56  
Old January 20th, 2019, 10:32 PM
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Re: Orc's Tips to Improve Fast

One commandment to add which I dont think gets enough attention- Think through the ORDER of operations beyond just the OMs. What I mean is, of the opportunity presents itself to conduct an action in multiple ways, ensure you have weighed in which way is most beneficial to conduct.

2 brief examples.
In a game recently, my 10th Reg was trying to pop Isamu. They spread out in a pattern that guaranteed his 4 range dodge move would result in him being targetable at least 3 times, however had one model shot out of order, he would have only required 1 successful dodge to escape.

Similarly, while attacking from height offers the best advantage, it is often better to attack from a less advantageous position first if it would clear the other model to an attack that would be lost in opposite order. Think of 2 ranged models engaged to the same figure, one higher, one lower, in such a way that the lower one does not have an alternate target, but the higher does. Many times I've seen in the heat of the moment calls where the advantageous model attacks and wins, but the disadvantages one now has no move.
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  #57  
Old January 23rd, 2019, 02:43 PM
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Re: Orc's Tips to Improve Fast

Quote:
Originally Posted by TradeMark View Post
One commandment to add which I dont think gets enough attention- Think through the ORDER of operations beyond just the OMs. What I mean is, of the opportunity presents itself to conduct an action in multiple ways, ensure you have weighed in which way is most beneficial to conduct.

2 brief examples.
In a game recently, my 10th Reg was trying to pop Isamu. They spread out in a pattern that guaranteed his 4 range dodge move would result in him being targetable at least 3 times, however had one model shot out of order, he would have only required 1 successful dodge to escape.

Similarly, while attacking from height offers the best advantage, it is often better to attack from a less advantageous position first if it would clear the other model to an attack that would be lost in opposite order. Think of 2 ranged models engaged to the same figure, one higher, one lower, in such a way that the lower one does not have an alternate target, but the higher does. Many times I've seen in the heat of the moment calls where the advantageous model attacks and wins, but the disadvantages one now has no move.
Fair enough; probably worth adding. Not a mistake I really see people make at GenCon, but certainly helpful for newer players.
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