Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

[OEAO]

Blacktop: I haven't had the opportunity to try this map yet, so I can't speak to its overall quality. However, Flash pointed out that spiders (or other 2-height figures) can park on the glyph and adjacent shadow space and deny melee figures the opportunity to attack the spider on the glyph. In fact, double-based melee figures could never engage that setup. This is enough for a downvote from me. No to induct.

[OEAO]

Forest Fire: I was going to wait to vote until I tried the new version (which has seen a lot of play recently; Louisville has used it at 3-4 monthlies, and Utah used it recently for their team event), but I don't think my vote changes either way. The newer version sacrifices some dynamic height to slightly improve lateral movement and make it easier to play. I'm honestly not sure whether that's objectively better or worse, but I've heard people argue it both ways (making it, imo, rather subjective).

I also wasn't quite sure whether I should recuse myself given that I (and infected sloth) gave quite a bit of feedback to the creator, but it's no more than I've given on a lot of other maps.

But on to this version of Forest Fire.

No, you should never really rush the middle, but that's a feature, not a bug. Lateral movement is not amazing, but it's certainly adequate. The road serves its purpose to allow units to quickly move from one side to the other. The central road itself (right outside the SZs) serves as a staging ground from which you can move to the elevated height on either side. You can climb the lava, or you can just take the road. Just about any unit can make it to the level two road from the second-to-last road space.

The highlight of this map is all the dynamic height, and all the interesting choices it creates. The upside of this version is that the central road is level 1, giving interesting counterplay between the level 1 and 2 roads, and the single level 2 rock hex in the center. That level 2 rock is balanced by the level 3 and 4 lava immediately above it.

Where the map really shines is the height around the glyph. This is the first map since Wyrmwalk to create such an interesting lava height setup. The level 4 2-hex lava, flanked by level 3 road/rock on either side, and with a level 2 glyph and level 2 road next to them... it's just *chef's kiss*. This is easily one of the best two setups of lava I've seen, ever (and it's probably the best).

Couple this with the fact that the map doesn't run in to the "oops all lava!" trap, and that the heights are easily assailable and not yours-and-mine, and you have a real winner. I'm willing to overlook a slight issue with lateral movement when everything else works so well. Yes to induct.

[Flash_19]

Blacktop
I have not tried the map. But I did have some concerns based on theoryscaping that I'll address quickly. Then get to the reason why I downvoting the map.

I'm concerned about the 3-hex setup just outside the startzone. It can be covered by Raelin as she's chilling in the startzone, and 5 move figures can set up on it on turn 1. I'm also concerned that there is no road running adjacent to it, though that may simply be because of the desirable shadow tiles adjacent to it? I like that at least the shadow tiles are there (hopefully they'd help figures attacking up on that position?), but I'm not sure it does enough to limit the strength of the position. Again, I don't know how big of a deal that will be because I haven't played the map.

Next, the bridge walls make me nervous when they are placed this way on a map. I'm not willing to commit to saying it should never be done, but I worry that they can punish a player who is behind too much. They make it harder for melee units back in the start zone to approach and counter attack ranged units who have claimed the middle.

Lastly - the reason for the downvote. Spiders (or other size 2 units) can hold the glyph and the shadow tile next to the glyph and prevent engagement by double based melee figures because of the 2 level dip.

[superfrog]

We have a cool new WoS mission statement/explainer in our OP:

Wargrounds of Scape curates a collection of high-quality maps from community nominations. In the spirit of recognizing the decade-plus tradition of mapmaking on this site, we seek to provide a one-stop shop of maps from all eras and projects that provide consistently excellent gameplay for the modern meta.

[OEAO]

Originally Posted by superfrog

We have a cool new WoS mission statement/explainer in our OP:

Thanks Superfrog for writing this!

[Dignan]

HIGHWAYS OR THE HIGH WAY (JUNGLE EDITION) by 1Mmirg

I think this map does a lot of things right and follows a formula to create a very balanced and fair tournament game. I don't think you can go wrong including it at your event. However, the play on this map doesn't feel very dynamic to me. While there is a little elevation change and jungle terrain at play, the map overall feels like funneling troops through three lanes and taking shots. I don't see it challenge players with pathing and movement the way other maps do. NO to induct.

COMMON GROUND by Gamebear

This is an old classic that I feel still holds up. I will grant that it's not perfect, with some of the approach terrain, but it does great work with what it uses. I think there is a ton of great play in this little map. YES to induct.

[OEAO]

Highways or the High Ways (Jungle Edition): This map is close, but I agree with Dignan. The map is too flat. The interesting usage of ladders is completely lost because the map plays as two flat level 3 slabs. This map is wider than it needs to be- and freeing up those rock 3-hexes on the base level would be a start towards rectifying the flatness problem.

I also really dislike the battlements adjacent to the bush. It's annoying to connect them, and they don't have much practical effect.

It's a fine map that can probably be edited fairly painlessly to rectify these issues. But as is, I'll vote No to induct.

[dok]

Common Ground by Gamebear

I remember being upset when Longheroscaper downvoted this map to eliminate it from BoV consideration many moons ago. The adjacent startzones on initiative island really work and makes for a fun dynamic in placement. I also find the various asymmetries of the map to work very well. The blue startzone is perhaps slightly better for a defensive position, but the yellow zone has slightly easier access to the glyph. I love the confidence to mix elements like this and I wish more maps had similar asymmetric flourishes. Then again, maybe you need to have Gamebear's skill to make it work.

I've had many memorable and great games on this map. However, I've also had and seen some memorable and not-so-great games on this map. And those generally come down to the elevations in and around the startzone. When combined with the water spaces, it means that the best strategy for range in a range-melee matchup (or even melee in a melee-melee matchup) can be to take the isolated level 2 spots just outside your startzone, and try to get your opponent to come at you there. The single spaced perch in the middle of the startzones is a bit odd and makes this strategy just a bit better, too.

It's a close thing, for sure. I'm not really going to be upset to see this map in a tournament pool. But I have a hard time overlooking the flaws the map has when considering it for the WoS. The standards for "best of the best" keep getting higher, and while I think this might have been there in 2009, I think it's just short in 2022. NO to induct.

Dry Season by Killometer

In some ways my feelings here are the reverse of my feelings for Common Ground. Dry Season is notably lacking in any sort of quirks or flourishes. It is... dare I say it... kind of a dry map.

But you know what? Everything works here. The most concerning thing is the gap between the heights that runs down the middle, but in practice I haven't seen this be much of a problem. The map decidedly does not encourage startzone turtling. (I've only seen one person attempt it, and he lost despite having a stronger army.)

While I have yet to play/watch enough games on Origin to judge it, I can say that Dry Season is the most reliable competitive map for 1xRoTV I've seen, and overall it's strong enough to deserve a spot in the WoS. YES to Induct.

[Sheep]

I'd like to submit a map of my own.


Requires: 1 SotM, 2 RttFF, and 1 TJ
.PDF Download

Tournament Usage
Peoria Monthly December 2021 (Previous Events < December)
Utah Monthly January 2022

I've recently come to notice that Trollsford Road looks like the inverse of Remains of Clionesia. Similar in layout and size, Trollsford Road swaps out the crumbling, hill top castle for a perilous, low altitude swamp. Danger lies wherever you find yourself.

[superfrog]

Battlefield 23 by Flash_19

I have enjoyed this map over the last few years and it's one of my testing staples (whenever I'm not testing my own maps).

Development paths are good: going right is strong, and going left is fast, in different scenarios both of these are helpful. The road makes it relatively easy to switch between the two, as even a 4-move figure can go from adjacent to one level 4 height to the other in a single turn. The jungle by the left road especially helps development on that side and the right side has nice protection from LoS blockers.

Although the level 4 is the highest position, the action on this map can also center on, well, the center. Despite the fact that the entire center (level 2 and 3) is basically a level down from the edges (level 3 and 4), it is easily accessible from pretty much anywhere and has good dynamic height variation and bush protection.

Treasure Glyphs add just a little incentive to not venturing too far towards the edges, and the battlements are nicely restrained.

I also want to give a shoutout to the ARV judges for their input on an earlier version of this map that helped shape the current version.

to induct Battlefield 23.

[Grey Waves]

I'd like to nominate 2 maps.

The first map is Royal Gardens by @Flash_19 . This map was used in OHS Season 41 and OHS Season 46.



Royal Gardens is one of the most aesthetic maps I’ve ever seen. I don’t think it’d be an exaggeration to call it downright beautiful. Anyway, looks aside, gameplay on this map is also solid, with good use of battlements and LOS blockers that slow development just the right amount (necessary on such a small map), a variety of different options to head to out of the SZ, and the majority of the map seeing play throughout. Some people may not like how the map is a bit bumpy in the middle, but in my eyes that’s a feature, not a bug. Overall a great map that I think is well worthy of induction.


The second map is Highways & Dieways, Swarm edition by @UranusPChicago and @Rÿchean . This map was used in Online Con 2020 and OHS Season 44.



I'm nominating this map because gameplay on it is just as good, if not better, than the already-inducted Highways & Dieways. Some may argue that this nomination is redundant because we already have vanilla H&D inducted, but I don't see any reason why we can’t have both maps in the WoS. It's not like WoS has a maximum limit on the amount of maps that can be inducted, and while the gameplay on vanilla H&D and H&D SE is similar, there are some notable differences, such as the lack of spider denial on H&D SE, or how it's viable to go right out of your SZ on one map but not the other. I’m of the view that if a map is good enough to be inducted, then it should be inducted, all similarities aside. For that reason, I believe that Highways & Dieways, Swarm Edition is worthy of a spot in the Wargrounds of Scape.

[OEAO]

Congrats Flash- Battlefield 23 has been inducted!