APOSTLE'S CREED - a zombie story

[TheAverageFan]

Spoiler Alert!

Originally Posted by The Grim Reaper's Friend

Something about the names and the people they belong to; they just seem oddly... normal. In a realistic way. Not a bad way. Not sure how else to put it. I especially get this sense from Brooke. So that's definitely a good thing.

For some reason with this story in particular I was able to consistently nail "real" sounding first and last names. Which is good as I've had other stories where some characters just don't even have last names at all after having too much trouble trying to come up with something.

Originally Posted by The Grim Reaper's Friend

And the winged moon? It's either volcanic/missile plumes, or this is all some sort of mass hallucination/test. I'm still holding out for the test option.

Why are you so resistant to the possibility that's it's actually there?

Originally Posted by The Grim Reaper's Friend

So he goes and grabs the baby... what, all the hornets evaporated? They swarm FOREVER.

This is definitely missing a sentence specifying that Thorn's army gear makes him nearly immune to stinging damage. Or that he gets in and out without caring for any bites to his face and neck.

Originally Posted by The Grim Reaper's Friend

Finally, a few common things I'm seeing: Firstly, laying/lying like I've mentioned a few times. You lie down, lay down, are lying down, have lain down. OR: You lay something down, laid something down, are laying something down, have laid something down. Those are the conjugations.

The other thing I've been noticing is quotes. You'll write quotes like this: “Thank you.” He repeated simply, “We wouldn’t have made it this far without you either.”

You should swap the first period and comma. In sentence structure, quotes are clauses, which basically means they are mini-sentences within sentences. But they are still part of the larger sentence. If the sentence isn't over yet, you use a comma. So because 'He repeated simply' doesn't make sense by itself, you need a comma after 'Thank you.' For the same reason, 'He' doesn't need to be capitalized.

HOWEVER, '"Thank you," he repeated simply,' IS a complete sentence, which means it ends, there is a period, and you start the next line with a capital.

The line should look like: "Thank you," he repeated simply. "We wouldn't have made it this far without you either."

This is generally the format of all your quotes.

I guess I will need to do a complete sweep at some point then. The current formatting is a habit formed over a long time and is undoubtedly present in every other fiction on here as well. No reason to point out other examples of it here then.

~TAF , will make those corrections later

[TGRF]

Now through chapter 13.

Some thoughts and further speculation:

Spoiler Alert!

To be honest this is starting to remind me a lot about the SYLO Chronicles by D J MacHale. That wasn't a zombie story - though it was an apocalypse - but the similarity is in the hints. There's just stuff happening which just... can't happen. It's just not possible in the given genre and setting. MacHale was the same way, knowing full well that you could never, ever figure out the answer just because there was no way for you to guess it. I'm getting the same vibe here. You've hidden what's going on behind a setting of false reality. There is, quite literally, way more going on here than meets the eye.

Originally Posted by TAF

Why are you so resistant to the possibility that's it's actually there?

This is why I assume it can't be the moon. This is set in the real world. The moon doesn't sprout wings. Even if it did, the gravity of the moon would cause them to collapse back to the surface pretty quick. Then there's all the questions: how did they get there? What are they made of? And now how is the moon skipping a whole half of its phases? No, it can't be real. This is a real-world setting, and that's not how real objects behave. Therefore it's not real.

Now, there are unexplained things here. Nazar's magical protection aura. Sentient stoves. And now magical writing (did Abbey write it herself in her sleep, or find it on her? I wasn't sure). These things simply don't happen in the setting provided, therefore the setting is a smoke-screen, a false reality to throw the reader off the scent.

And man, it's doing a good job.

Some minor grammar stuff, for 11 & 12:

Spoiler Alert!

Just promise me you’ll make it okay.

Technically you want a question mark - unless you're using 'okay' as an adjective here.

The distaste reveled in Dad’s tone as he spoke,

Revealed, I'm guessing.

and unhesitatingly open fired into the darkness.

Opened.

Zombies, about eight of ‘em.

'Em seems weird when it's not dialogue. If the whole story was that way, it would fit, but out on it's own it seems strange.

*If everything Shelley and Stanley had said was true,

So there's something I read about naming characters once; generally you try to avoid names starting with the same first letter. There's some leeway here; it's more important with longer or foreign names that the reader might not pronounce fully, because they identify the speaker from the first few letters only. With short, real names, it's less important. But with names that start and end the same way, and are about the same length, having them in the same sentence can confuse someone who's reading a bit too fast (like me). I thought it was Stanley and Stanley for a second.

~TGRF, really, really trying to come up with an explanation. And failing.

P.S. I'm actually curious about that writing. Because if Abbey woke up and found it, then it's either just appearing or there's someone with serious calligraphy skills out there. But if she wrote it herself, then we're dealing with mind control, which is a whole different ball game.

P.P.S. Seriously though, I feel like you'd enjoy SYLO. Give it a read. The way he revealed the final twist was masterful, manipulating your expectations throughout two books like I've never seen.

[TGRF]

I've read through chapter 16. However, I did so on my phone, so I wasn't able to note grammar stuff for 13-16. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Generally, in what zombie movies I've seen, once the characters reach the 'safe haven', it's only a matter of time before someone does something stupid, and everyone has to evacuate as the place goes up in flames around them. Either that, or the 'safe haven' turns out to be run by crazy cultists or something. But because you said you haven't seen much zombie media, and because twists are kind of your thing, I'm curious to see what happens next. We need more clues about the moon. And Nazar. And the writing. And the stove. More clues!

~TGRF.

P.S. I'm going to turn my attention back to the Dilmir stories, so the rate at which I read will probably slow down. But I'll definitely be reading to the end, if only to see how on earth the moon actually has wings.

[TheAverageFan]

Originally Posted by The Grim Reaper's Friend

I've read through chapter 16. However, I did so on my phone, so I wasn't able to note grammar stuff for 13-16. Nothing out of the ordinary.

I've been doing some grammar fixes of my own as I've been rereading so it should be okay. But then it's not like I didn't do those on my original editing and reread-before-posting processes. Er, well keep an eye out for anything blatantly incorrect as you go.

Originally Posted by The Grim Reaper's Friend

P.S. I'm going to turn my attention back to the Dilmir stories, so the rate at which I read will probably slow down. But I'll definitely be reading to the end, if only to see how on earth the moon actually has wings.

OK. Perhaps reading this has given you some new writing ideas that could be applied to future works.

~TAF

[TGRF]

Originally Posted by TheAverageFan

OK. Perhaps reading this has given you some new writing ideas that could be applied to future works.

~TAF

It definitely has a feel to it I like, but can't really describe. Something about zombie stories just seem to get me for some reason, and yours definitely has that feel to it. Just reading this made me want to write my own zombie story again. So figuring out what that is would certainly be a good idea in the future. I'm also studying the way the plot unfolds - I think it will be helpful in my Dilmir stories.

I'll definitely try to get in at least one chapter a day. Which would be easier if they were shorter...

~TGRF.

[TGRF]

So I've read through chapter 21 and have some thoughts:

Spoiler Alert!

There's two criticisms I have, one a lot bigger than the other. I know, I know, criticisms again. But you've still got me hooked without a clue as to what's going on, because despite everything screaming 'man-made disease', stuff just does not add up, like sentient stoves and winged moons.

But back to the criticisms. Firstly, the size of the Bloodletter was never mentioned. Initially, I was envisioning it about the size of an octopus (not a giant octopus, a normal one). About the size of a beach ball. Especially when you used the word 'head' to describe it; that gave it some implied size. But it's obviously way bigger than that. While that became more obvious as the chapter went on, it initially threw me.

But the second criticism is I think what did the most damage, and it's not even anything to do with the writing. It's just this: I needed a map. I definitely got the sense of being in a maze, because I had no idea where Thomas was or where he was going. When you mentioned specific places, I had zero context to visualize it. This really cut down on any tension I think, because I was constantly trying to reconcile what you were describing with an image in my head which just didn't exist.

This was most obvious when Thomas was at the A checkpoint. Part of this was a lack of description on the room itself, but not all. At first I thought the Bloodletter was behind him, talking through some window. But then he was blocking the way, so he's... ahead of him, but can't get in. But then he leaves... what? Why is he leaving? There were references to some other long way around... I got really confused reading that whole bit.

There's two ways I know of to deal with this. One is obviously to include a map. Mapping an interior is pretty fast in photoshop, and really comes in handy for things like this. A second method would be, if you know keeping a map in the head is going to be difficult, don't try and explain where on the map people are. Instead of referencing specific points and specific routes being taken, just say Thomas knew the way, and continued down it. When he comes to checkpoint A, describe the room as somewhere he knows he needs to pass through, but don't bother describing it in relation to anything else. This method would leave the reader more able to focus on just the tension and action, rather than trying to track progress.

Now, all that being said, take it with a grain of salt, because I have been known to get lost in small nature parks, grocery stores, and parking lots.

~TGRF.

[TheAverageFan]

Getting your internal vision across to the reader is the eternal struggle, isn't it? Sometimes it's easy to forget that they have literally nothing to work with until you give them details.

Spoiler Alert!

I never penned a map because it'd be too much effort (brilliant mindset for a writer I know). That being said there is a general pathing to where Thomas goes in my theatre of the mind, so I could probably make a rudimentary map showing the gist of where exactly he goes—not going into too much detail in the areas he doesn't venture into.

For the Bloodletter I considered doing an Enemy Journal entry which includes a handy picture but ultimately decided against it since he is not a zombie or a zombie variant. Size descriptions in the text escaped me but he is relatively large: his head/body is about three feet in diameter, give or take.

~TAF, having finished his reread

[TGRF]

So I have this morning finished reading, and after gathering my thoughts for a couple of hours, am ready to commence with the review.

I'm going to break this down into a few sections, and then I'll give my rating for the fiction as a whole. Sections are in no particular order, with both good and bad together. I'll provide my thoughts on the story as a whole at the end. There's a lot to get through here, so reserve judgement until the end.

Firstly, Characters

Spoiler Alert!

What I didn't like: There was a general lack of characterization for most characters. Thomas, Brooke, Header, Stacey, Reed, Gene, and Thorn had the most characterization I felt, in that order. The rest were fairly blank.

That in itself isn't necessarily bad, but it did make keeping track of all the characters pretty difficult. The original group was described enough (Jaxson is the runner, Stacey the fiery one, Brooke's got the guitar, Thomas is the pessimist, Header and Thorn are the soldiers), but as more and more people came in, the names started to blur together, and more than once I found myself thinking 'who was this again?' as someone got bit.

What I did like: That being said, what characterization there was I felt was done very well. I liked how we learned more about the characters as we went, small snippets showing themselves over time. It felt very natural and paced, and is something I would like to master in my own writing.

Something else I didn't like: A lack of initial strength. 'Strength' is what I call any trait a character possesses which causes us, the readers, to root for them. This is a trait which most anyone can appreciate, or point to and say 'I wish I had that.'.

With the exception of Thomas and Brooke and maybe Stacey, no one had this. And with the exception of Thomas (and again maybe Stacey), no one had it early on.

Thomas was the pessimist who is way more heroic than he thinks, recognizes his pessimism (strength), and tries to tone it down. Brooke is the optimist trying to keep everyone's spirits up (strength). Stacey, being young and spunky, kind of comes off as representing innocence (strength), but that's open to interpretation.

Now why am I pointing this out? Because strength is important, especially in a story where the characters are almost immediately in danger. Without a reason to want these people to win, we're just reading events. If Jaxson or Thorn or even Brooke had initially snuffed it, it wouldn't have hit that hard. For example, when Moore got bit, my reaction wasn't 'ah no, not him!' but rather 'huh. Thought he was one of the main characters.'

Description

Spoiler Alert!

What I didn't like: There was a general lack of description throughout the story. People really weren't described at all in terms of appearance, and places and zombies were described minimally.

Now that's not a bad thing, and for the most part it worked, allowing me to make my own vision in my head pretty reliably. But it really brought the story down in two critical areas:

Firstly, characters. Like I said above, there were multiple times when I just didn't know who was currently biting the dust. This was most noticeable with Abbey's group, almost all of whom were named, not described, and then quickly died. Even people like Gene and Reed I kept getting mixed up.

Now not everyone was like this. The original group all had good identifiers, which I went through above. Reed was the anti-government guy, Gene was the fat one (was he fat? I was imagining him fat...), and so on. Everyone who made it was described sufficiently, so that I at least remembered who they were.

The second place this really messed things up was in chapter 21, with the Bloodletter. I've already expounded on this, so I'll just summarize here: I didn't initially realize how big the Bloodletter was, and frankly got completely lost and confused trying to figure out where Thomas was in the facility.

What I did like: Now don't worry, there are things I did like. Aside from that bit in 21 I mentioned, the action was easy to see in my head. It very much flowed like a movie, and I could see things unfolding, the lack of description working to your advantage. You had just enough to paint the picture, but left plenty unsaid so that I could fill it in with my own idea of what it looked like. Just about every action scene was like this.

Something else I did like: Something else which really stood out to me were some of the unique descriptions you used. I mentioned before your comparison of Thomas' building to a domino - so good. It instantly conveys the shape. There were some other descriptions which stuck out to me, like in chapter 22, where it says, "eyeing the dark suspiciously as if he'd castigate it for trying anything" - that made me laugh. Also near the end, where the Hummers were like angels. Not something I'd think of, but it described everyone's attitude perfectly. Again, just little things like that really helped me to visualize everything.

Stakes

Spoiler Alert!

Brace yourself, because this is the most brutally honest section. I touched on this with characters, but now I really want to get into wanting people to win, and really fearing them losing. It IS entirely possible to get your readers invested in your characters, and if they win or lose. And for a zombie story, where the stakes usually boil down to simple survival, you've got to have that investment.

It was only just there, and then only for Thomas and Brooke. You could have killed everyone else - Stacey, Thorn, Header, everyone - and I wouldn't have been all that shocked. To be honest, I expected a lot more to die, actually. Even if you had killed Brooke, I would be surprised, but not displeased. Only Thomas dying would have spelled doom, since he's the main character and we've spent so long in his head and he's trying to be a better person.

As a whole, the investment was weak. The lack of description didn't do any favors, keeping everyone feeling distant and blank. Now, eventually it allowed me to fill in those blanks with my own idea of what these people looked like, and that helped, but it was too little too late.

When the group was running from zombies, or gunning them down atop a tower, I expected to be on the edge of my seat, but I never was (okay maybe a little in the tower, just because I couldn't tell how they were going to get out, and because I could see the scene so clearly in my head). When people died, I never felt the loss.

For me that really hurt the story, killing the tension and flattening my overall reaction. These people could really have used something to give them extra worth.

Twists and Unknowns

Spoiler Alert!

This is the section I've been writing in my head ever since I finished reading, just because there's so much to think about.

Firstly, you obviously did a good job keeping the explanation of everything from me. Everything except the zombies - that was fairly obvious, and I think it was meant to be. However, the reason I couldn't guess any of the answers... I didn't like that. Here's why:

Even now, I can't with much certainty say how the moon has wings, or how the stove moved, or the writing appeared. Based on what Elias said, I'm guessing that Apostle somehow literally made a pact with Satan, and it's Satan doing all this stuff because... he likes freaking people out I guess. And, okay, that's fine. But I've got to expect it.

If I write a story set in the real world, where the moon suddenly has wings, and the explanation is supernatural, the supernatural has got to be on the table. It never was. Nothing was really on the table, because after the initial shock of seeing the winged moon, or the moving stove, or the appearing writing, the characters just kind of shrugged it off. That always felt weird to me. I get that you can't figure it out, but if I were in that situation, my mind would be trying to figure it out anyway. I wouldn't just accept it as reality and keep going, zombies or not. Every time I saw that moon, I'd be thinking, trying to come up with what on earth could possibly cause it.

That never happened, and as a result, I wasn't prepared beforehand for any explanation whatsoever. This is something D.J.MacHale does really well in the SYLO series: he over-preps your expectations, getting you ready to accept something absurd as the answer, just because nothing else makes sense. Then when the real answer comes, you accept it, just because it's more down to earth than you now expected. This story was the opposite way, providing no expectations, and finally revealing the answer to be something which had not ever been mentioned in the entire story.

You asked once why I didn't consider that the moon really had wings, and this is why: there was no set up for it, nothing which said: this is a world where God and Satan are real. Everything screamed hard reality and stark evidence, and there was no scenario ever presented where a winged moon was remotely possible.

Disclaimer: You know I'm a Christian, meaning obviously I assume God and Satan are real. But that assumption doesn't stretch to stories. Stories have their own separate worlds, and I have to assume they are what they appear, just like I wouldn't assume God or Satan exist on Valhalla or Feylund, unless hints start dropping that they do.

Unanswered Questions

Spoiler Alert!

I decided to split this section up, because there's a whole second point I want to address: unanswered questions. You've said my Utgar story feels like the beginning to a much larger tale. Well, this feels like only the first half of another story.

Why is that? Nothing is really resolved. There are way too many questions. If both Elias and Nazar are ignored by zombies, then it stands to reason they are both Apostle. If Nazar is Apostle, then he's a bad guy. If he's a bad guy, and owns VACC... WHY THE HECK ARE THEY TAKING THE CURE TO VACC?!?!?!? That's not going to end anything! Nazar destroys the last vial, and that's it. I mean, I get the impression that the scientists there really are trying to find a cure, but Nazar's going to find out at some point, swoop in there, and destroy everything, probably kill everyone, and that's it. I mean, that's Apostle's goal, right? Kill everyone? What's he waiting for? If he knew where the cure was this whole time, why doesn't he just launch a missile and blow the place up? He has helicopters. He can do that.

Honestly, there are just a lot of unanswered questions. Why did Nazar select Brooke and save her in the beginning? How does Nazar have a rank when he doesn't seem to be part of the army? If he's Apostle, why is he
saving people at all? Why have a safe house? Why hire scientists to discover a cure? What if they were successful? How does Silvin fit in? What happens to him? What happens to any of the characters, for that matter? Do they even make it back to VACC? What about the winged moon? Is this just reality now? What about the army? Tandom is still out there somewhere, doing... something. Containment? Survival?

Just a lot of unanswered questions, which together made the ending feel very unresolved. I feel like you could easily write a sequel to this, having them get back to VACC with the cure, only to realize that Nazar is there waiting for them, and then they have to track down Tandom or something to actually produce the cure... Maybe it's in Brooke's blood now because she cut her hand on the vial, so they need to keep her alive, but then she gets bit, but then she has time because of the cure, but it's not enough and she's turning slowly, and... sorry. Auto-escalation.

The story as a whole

Spoiler Alert!

Now that's a lot of criticism I just spouted off there, but don't think I hated the story, because I didn't. It had some flaws, but it was still a good story despite them.

The opening was a bit rough, because I didn't really care too much about anyone, and wasn't sure who the main character was. Once the group was established things picked up, characterization started coming in, and Thomas started to shine as the protagonist. Once they reached the VACC, I figured they would be leaving again somehow, but I would NOT have guessed that they would have just walked out. The safe haven is ALWAYS either overrun by zombies and left to burn (it's always on fire), or it's run by a bad guy who tries to keep them escaping. Neither of those things happened, which was a pleasant surprise. The trek inside the facility was I feel the most tension-packed, with the tower scene being pretty close, possibly more so. Like I've said, the ending felt kind of abrupt and there was a lack of resolution, but it still worked.

All in all, I had fun reading it. The three main issues were a lack of characterization, a lack of description at times, and an ending which ultimately felt unresolved to me. But none of these issues really kept me from reading, and the excellently written action, earnestness of Thomas' character, and inability to guess what was going on kept me coming back. There were grammar issues, and I think you know the language is not my thing, but I was able to tune both of these out and keep reading.

Overall I would rate this as a solid 7/10: very good. Was it bad? No. Could it be better? Sure. Would I read a sequel? Certainly.

And there you have it. Most of the great writers here have written their version of a zombie story at some point (at least in my time), and this is definitely one to add to those records. I've included some general grammar stuff below, but that's about it. A fine read, and I hope you write another story soon.

But maybe shorten the chapters a bit? Those were some long sittings.

Grammar (short)

Spoiler Alert!

Just a few things I consistently noticed:

You'll refer to someone based on their position or what they're doing. This is a good device I use myself, but sometimes you'd do it in strange places, right after a name. Usually you didn't need a tag at all in the context, and the presence of an unfamiliar one was often jarring.

You used laying instead of lying quite a bit. Laying is putting something down. Lying is someone lying down on a couch or something. Lots of people get those mixed up - it's English's fault.

You'd use the past participle where you needed the past. Don't quote me on this, but a good rule is if the form of a verb you're using has a U which wasn't there in other forms (swum, rung), you only use it with a helping verb (has, have, had). Otherwise it's normal past (swam, rang).

Void is not an adjective. You want devoid.

The phrase is 'intents and purposes'. Not 'intense'. Sometimes you'll see it as 'intensive purposes', but that's an eggcorn, which essentially means it's a phrase which only exists because enough people misheard the original and started spelling it that way. The proper phrase is 'intents and purposes'. Yes, I had to look it up for this. You're welcome.

And finally, someone else who knows the difference between 'all right' and 'alright'! Yay!

What's that? That's not what it means? You've got to be kidding me!

... Okay, so apparently 'alright' is just an informal and unaccepted spelling of 'all right'. Who knew? I thought they were genuinely different words.

~TGRF.

[AMIS]

Up to Chapter 14 in the two days I've discovered this one...good story so far...and I'm not a fan of the Zombie genre either - probably why I kept holding off.

[TheAverageFan]

Originally Posted by AMIS

Up to Chapter 14 in the two days I've discovered this one...good story so far...and I'm not a fan of the Zombie genre either - probably why I kept holding off.

O_o 14 TAF-length chapters in two days? Hopefully you are enjoying it at that pace, especially if you do not normally enjoy zombie stuff. Feel free to let me know if you have any feedback, thoughts, critiques, etc.

~TAF, who should probably add that size thing in before it's too late

[TGRF]

Originally Posted by TheAverageFan

O_o 14 TAF-length chapters in two days? Hopefully you are enjoying it at that pace, especially if you do not normally enjoy zombie stuff. Feel free to let me know if you have any feedback, thoughts, critiques, etc.

~TAF, who should probably add that size thing in before it's too late

Speaking of TAF-sized chapters, something I'd recommend is breaking them up. Just split them up between several spoilers. Within reason, and at obvious breaks, of course. Sometimes while reading, I'd have to stop to go do something, and it would take me a long time to find my place again. Splitting the chapters up into more manageable chunks would definitely help with that.

~TGRF,

[TheAverageFan]

Yes I did notice that when checking back on Apocalypse. At the time I didn't know why you were doing it.

~TAF