Heroscapication

[Ixe]

Shurrak

Cut and dried great example of modifying a card for your project. Disciplined is a slight change mechanically, but ultimately insignificant and it is otherwise a bit of an odd ball. I believe it is possible to be disciplined without being militaristic (like the ninjas), but it's pretty tough to be militaristic (beyond being warlike) without being disciplined. I believe the motivation for it was driven by the D&D fire giant descriptor more than anything rather than some key aspect that had to be related by the character.

Feylund is the only place you can put him and falls perfectly in line with your project.

[Dr.Goomonkey]

Yeah, Shurrak might be one of the best I've seen so far (though honestly almost all of them I've agreed with your changes)

[Samaritan]

Thanks guys, I don't think even Lyrgard could complain about this one

[Samaritan]

Wyvern Predator

Latest conversion

Spoiler Alert!

For the Wyvern, we decided to go a different route. Unocommon Heroes are a merger of Unique and Common Heroes. Like unique they have life, but like commons you can have more then one of them. Typically most uncommons get converted into uniques, but for the wyvern we decided to a different route.

Card Style: Jungle-Vine

Allegiance: Stays the same (Aquilla)

Name: Added "Predator". Having a card's name the exact same as its species does have its precedent in Heroscape with the Teh-Dzu, however giving the card its own unique name sounds better and is the more typical format in the game. Here we simply followed the Quasatch Hunters' lead and combined the species with the rank, making: Wyvern Predator.

Species: Its a Wyvern. Clearly. While not a original Heroscape race, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, its duck. Or in this case, a Wyvern.

Type: Uncommon Hero gets changed to Common Hero.

Class: Stays the same (Predator)

Personality: Stays the same (Ferocious)

Size: Stays the same (Large 7)

Abilities: Stays the same, no tweaking.

Stats: These get changed a little. Obviously, as a Common Hero, the Wyvern Predator only gets 1 Life. Now we've noticed in classic Heroscape, that the stat value of the 2 Common Heroes equals the same. If you add, life, move, range, attack and defense of the Dumutef Guard and the Swog Rider they both equal 16. Interestingly enough if you look at the Drow Chainfighter, his states also equal 16. Only the Sahuagin Raider does not, although that could easily just be an example of Wizards of the Coast messing up again (We aren't going to consider the Elementals and Wyrmlings as they are common hero army groups and therefore arguably may be calculated a little different).

Now its possible that this is merely coincidence (after all we only have 2 or 3 examples) but we didn't want the Wyvern Predator to be worth more then 25 points. So after subtracted 3 life from the Wyvern Predator, we also knocked off one of its defenses as well, making its total stat value equal 16. (The Wyvern Predator does have one more power then any of the 25 point Common Heroes, but flying often seems to count as a "half-power" in Heroscape, more like a reminder of what the model's wing are for.)

But we're interested in what the community thinks. Should the 16 value point be honored? Or is it merely coincidence? Does having three powers disqualify the Wyvern for Common Hero status?

Price: 25 points, like classic Common Heroes.

On the basic side the Wyvern Predator's home planet gets change to Icaria! We considered Feylund, which kind of seems to be Heroscape's dumping ground for random mythological type units. But wyverns are suppose to be related to dragons, so we though it made more sense to have them come from the dragons' homeworld, especially as poor Aquilla doesn't get a representative from that planet.

[Lazy Orang]

Still not seeing the point of this project , but you could probably make Shurrak come from Valhalla if you wanted. HS lore says giants live there, or at least did so once, according to the blurb for the table of the giants battlefield. In fact, this could probably work well if you did it like this - make Shurrak from Volcarren and the Frost Giants from the Thaelenk Tundra (perhaps re-naming them the Frost Giants of Thaelenk).

[Dr.Goomonkey]

This might be the first thing I really disagree with, which is the making of the Wyvern a common. It seems to me that taking away so much life changes the model too much. But that's just my opinion...

[Hive Lord 1233]

Personally, I think the Uncommon Hero mechanic was a great addition to the game. Doesn't mess at all with precedents set by classic scape, and isn't a one-off random thing thrown into the mix.

[IshMEL]

If you were to go the Common Hero route with the Wyvern, I don't think you can really sum the values of the powers, get 16, and make that equivalent to 25 points. That would imply that, say, 1 Move is worth the same as 1 Attack or 1 Defense, which just doesn't hold water.

If you were costing a 1-Life Common Wyvern, the obvious comparison is the Dumutef Guard, since they're both 4A 4D. The Wyvern gets the advantage in Movement, since it not only has 1 more Move but also Flying. I figure that a Flying Move is about twice the value of a normal Move. The Dumutef Guard wins on Defense, since it has a potential 1D bonus on a road. I'd say the Wyvern wins on attack, since Venomous Sting is worth slightly less than a 1A bonus (against a 3D figure it will do an average of 1.46 damage, slightly less than a straight 5A attack). While the Dumutef can also get a 1A bonus, it will only get it on a road, while the Wyvern's is "always on." As for Devourer Enhancement vs. Talon Grab, I'd judge that Talon Grab is probably better, but that's just a gut call. In all, I'd say the Common Wyvern wins out, and is probably worth about 35 points. I'm no costing expert, of course. But if you're going this route, I'd say keep his stats and cost him appropriately, rather than trying to put him at 25 points just because the Swog Rider and the Dumutef Guard are also 25 points. My 2 cents.

[Samaritan]

I've been gone a while ...

Okay, based on feedback I've changed the Wyvern into a unique hero instead of a common one. Restored all stats to default.

Spoiler Alert!

Sorry the image is so small, for some reason the site keeps shrinking it.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by Samaritan

I've been gone a while ...

Okay, based on feedback I've changed the Wyvern into a unique hero instead of a common one. Restored all stats to default.

Spoiler Alert!

Sorry the image is so small, for some reason the site keeps shrinking it.

Having just gone to a local tournament where I was running spiders and 3 Wyverns, if the Wyvern was Unique, I don't think I would ever use the spiders again. This hurts their army way too much. Sujoah is great and all, but I prefer multiple Wyverns over her so that I can have a backup when my main, and usually only figure that can really deal damage consistently is eventually killed. I like the Uncommon hero mechanic, and honestly would have loved an Uncommon Squad mechanic too, but if you really don't like it, then Common is the way to go. The only problem you had was the price, which should be based more on playtesting, than whether the stats add up to any specific number.

[Samaritan]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

Having just gone to a local tournament where I was running spiders and 3 Wyverns, if the Wyvern was Unique, I don't think I would ever use the spiders again. This hurts their army way too much. Sujoah is great and all, but I prefer multiple Wyverns over her so that I can have a backup when my main, and usually only figure that can really deal damage consistently is eventually killed. I like the Uncommon hero mechanic, and honestly would have loved an Uncommon Squad mechanic too, but if you really don't like it, then Common is the way to go. The only problem you had was the price, which should be based more on playtesting, than whether the stats add up to any specific number.

Out of curiously, why only multiple Wyverns and not Sujoah AND a Wyvern?


Anyway, I do like to have multiple bonding options for squads, but obviously, like the average scaper, I don't like the ham-fisted way uncommons were forced into the game. Had Wizards of the Coast actually been bothered to create a unique mechanic for it and made uncommon squads to balance it out, it might have workout okay, but what they did was just lazy and ill thought out.


But speaking of multiple bonding options for the Spiders. This is what I've been thinking for the Blue Wyrmling.

Spoiler Alert!

I don't really see a reason for them to have a special class "Wyrmling" when their bonding power could just specify that they can only bond with Common Heroes (who are Dragons of course), freeing up the class to be something else. Of course all the Wyrmlings will need to have their bonding power changed, but that's not a problem. I don't intend to them all to be bondable with non-Wyrmlings however, just the Blues here. This way the Spiders have their multiple Common Heroes to bond with. I also lowered the movement and lowered points to bring it more in line with the original Common Heroes. What do you guys think?

[flameslayer93]

Trust me, the uncommon hero mechanics were not ham-handedly incorperated by wotc. They were created to support the concept of wild monsters with more than 1 Life.

Regarding Wyrmlings, don’t drop their costs too much if at all. Their value doesn’t lie in movement so much as it lies in their ability to create an army with a variety of threats. Flying+Range is an awfully powerful combination and dropping the cost of each one to 25 is really risky. I wouldn’t attempt to adjust the balance of those units, personally.