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  #1  
Old April 20th, 2011, 01:41 AM
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The Slow Win

After running a few tournaments, and watching some great players, play some good armies I have a theory: Slow and Steady Wins the Race.

I was watching two stinger, rat, raelin armies go at it and It struck me how slow everything moved. More over I noticed how much energy went into knocking raelin out, and when she was down how quickly the rest of the army followed. Then I realized how many of the "slow" armies end up being called for time, and winning on points.

So much of the attacking went into Raelin, it seemed also impossible for the "fast" player to do enough damage to the rest of the army in the time left after Raelin fell.

I wonder how many other events have this secondary result where slow armies have the advantage simply because it is difficult to do enough damage in the time allowed.

To this end, when ever I score an event I'm going to use hockey scoring, 2 for the win, 1 for having more points on the board in the event of a tie (neither army wiped out) and 0 for a loss regardless if you have points on the board. No more need to keep track of points and turtling armies are at a disadvantage. I know this isn't a perfect solution, but It will be fun to metagame with.

Summary:
2 for the total win
1 for having the most points on the board if not a total win
0 for losing in regardless if you have points on the board.

What army would you bring?


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Last edited by wriggz; April 20th, 2011 at 10:48 PM.
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  #2  
Old April 20th, 2011, 01:44 AM
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Re: The Slow Win

Venoc Vipers. They, and Ullar's army in general, have a good chance of putting on some fast damage. However, you do have a point. There are purely defensive teams that win on points. But on the other side of the coin, every suit of armor has its chinks...
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  #3  
Old April 20th, 2011, 01:49 AM
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Re: The Slow Win

Interesting theory. I have witnessed these kinds of armies myself. I would take my trusty Deathchaser army:
DCoT x4 220
Ogre Warhulk 370
Me-Burq-Sa 420

That is the base, and I've used Wyrmlings and Marro Warriors and such to meet tournament point limits. It's a good army to work with your rules though because it can strike hard and fast and won't survive in a drawn out game anyway.
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  #4  
Old April 20th, 2011, 02:36 AM
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Re: The Slow Win

The meta game in Toronto is changing because of me.
I guess that's kind of cool... in a way.

Wriggz, I said I wasn't going to be playing Stingers anymore, you didn't believe me did you?

It's going to be really hard to wipe out your opponents entire army, I can tell you that. I managed to only do that one game last tournament. I like the idea though, rats and Raelin suddenly don't look as good (unless you just want 1 point every game).

The meta game is offense now.
-Deathchasers come as a natural choice because of their high attack.
-Vipers don't look bad, they can end a game quick. (same with elf archers)
-Phantom Knights are in your face really quick also.
-Dragon bonding just got better, they produce high damage.
-Zombies got slightly worse since they are slow.
-STEAMROLLER.
Stingers are still good. (the one unit you can't really do anything about)
(all theory of course)

Is it just me, or does Taelord kind of sound good in a tournament all of sudden?

I Came, I Dropped, I Conquered.

Last edited by airdroppers; April 20th, 2011 at 02:40 AM. Reason: p.s that raelin stinger mirror match was intense, we were both rolling 6, 7 defense almost the whole game.
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  #5  
Old April 20th, 2011, 07:27 AM
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Re: The Slow Win

Nice idea. I like it.

Something else you might want to check out that has been successful in the northeast and some other areas for letting games go to completion is the Rolling Rumble format.
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  #6  
Old April 20th, 2011, 07:36 AM
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Re: The Slow Win

Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
After running a few tournaments, and watching some great players, play some good armies I have a theory: Slow and Steady Wins the Race.

I was watching two stinger, rat, raelin armies go at it and It struck me how slow everything moved. More over I noticed how much energy went into knocking raelin out, and when she was down how quickly the rest of the army followed. Then I realized how many of the "slow" armies end up being called for time, and winning on points.

So much of the attacking went into Raelin, it seemed also impossible for the "fast" player to do enough damage to the rest of the army in the time left after Raelin fell.

I wonder how many other events have this secondary result where slow armies have the advantage simply because it is difficult to do enough damage in the time allowed.

To this end, when ever I score an event I'm going to use hockey scoring, 2 for the win, 1 for the tie (neither army wiped out) and 0 for a loss. No more need to keep track of points and turtling armies are at a disadvantage. I know this isn't a perfect solution, but It will be fun to metagame with.

What army would you bring?

It sounds interesting Wriggz, but, as Airdroppers pointed out, how often will you be able to ENTIRELY wipe out an opponent's army within 50 minutes? You said it yourself that, between good players, the time alotted to the games is not nearly enough to finish it (Airdroppers vs Krav-Raelin-Stingers-Deathreavers guy in the last tournament).

The DOWNSIDE is twofold:

1) Almost all games between good opponents with competitive armies will end in draws.

2) The good players who are lucky and get to go up against the ones whose armies can be wiped out (or who play "wacky" armies in a "wacky" way) will have a huge advantage against those that encounter only good opponents that they can't entirely wipe out in 50 minutes to get the two points. In other words, you'll be rewarding lucky pairings instead of good play. Thus, if Airdroppers wins against-but does not eliminate-his 5 opponents, he'll have only 5 points. If I do the same but have the fortune of playing a couple of kamikaze doorknobs, I'll get 7 points. That's not right. It wouldn't be his fault he didn't get to play the putz'z. In fact, he had to play harder to get his five points than I did to get my 7 (since I would only have played 3 tough games vs his 5).

You see... the good players will NOT change their game/armies just because you have made it harder to win. They will not go for broke every game with a unit like Runa or Braxas because, sure, they may WIN a game, but she'll cost them 3 or more. The net result would be negative. The best armies are still the same unless you force us to play other things (as you did very creatively in your last tournament). It's just far harder to get a win.

I think this might also lend itself to king-making. Thus, a player who is behind might decide to rush his troops in to be slaughtered or not depending on whether he wants his opponent to get one or two points. I'm not suggesting that it would be common, but it is something to consider.

I really liked the format you used last time. I wish you'd use a similar one again. The only thing I would ask is that you be ruthless with the time limits and, when the clock rings, the one with more points on the board is declared the winner.

Last edited by Sun Wukong; April 20th, 2011 at 07:56 AM.
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  #7  
Old April 20th, 2011, 09:37 AM
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Re: The Slow Win

Quote:
Originally Posted by airdroppers View Post
Is it just me, or does Taelord kind of sound good in a tournament all of sudden?
Well... not quite.

I like the idea though. Using the time limit to win games isn't quite as thrilling or fair to me. Now there is actually motivation to engage the opponent!

Oh! Roll more skulls! Why didn't I think of that?
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  #8  
Old April 20th, 2011, 10:16 AM
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Re: The Slow Win

Hunh.

In my experience very few tournament games are called on time - no more than one or two per round. I think I have been in two games EVER that were called on time. Having said that, if the meta is causing a time problem, hockey scoring seems like a good solution.

~Aldin, rapidly

He either fears his fate too much
or his desserts are small
That dares not put it to the touch
to gain or lose it all
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Old April 20th, 2011, 11:43 AM
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Re: The Slow Win

Games that are caled on time are usually squad-heavy vs. squad heavy such as an epic 4th vs 10th or knights vs. dwarves, or any matchup where there is 20-24 members that have to duke it out.

However i do realize that playing the army slow is a good strategy. When I faced MattserTruckRally in a tourney with my 10th + rats vs. his dwarves + marro warriors, I attacked hard while he slow-rolled and I was unable to kill Raelin and ended up getting slaughtered along the way. I changed my strategy midgame to slow-roll myself, but by that time it was too late and I ended up only killing one squad of dwarves and 3 marro warriors (70 points), and him knocking out 75% of my army (300?) in the time limit. He totally deserved to win that game and I would feel I cheated him if it was counted as a tie, because then at the end I would just have to run away with one unit. With the tie rule, everyone would keep Isamu or someone in the back and just run away until time ended if they didn't think they could destroy the other army. If anything, having points count encourages people to attack quicker - especially towards the endgame whether you are winning or loosing.
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Old April 20th, 2011, 12:16 PM
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Re: The Slow Win

Excellent point, lefton4ya - a tie rule definitely encourages stalling. The scoring method can influence the play.

If you're noticing a lot of games going to time at your events, then I'd suggest:
  • longer rounds, or rolling rumble scheduling
  • lower army point totals
  • reduced startzone sizes
  • alternative victory conditions (e.g. capture the flag; treasure quest)
  • use of appropriate glyphs (attack glyphs, move glyphs, wound glyphs, the various +attack treasures)
  • smaller/less turtle-friendly maps

All of those should reduce the percentage of games called on time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Clerics in D&D are not adept at fighting.

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Old April 20th, 2011, 12:18 PM
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Re: The Slow Win

I'd be perfectly happy to see a glyph of Brandar in the middle of most maps that gave "n" points to a player every time they were holding that glyph at the end of one of their opponent's turns. To further encourage Heroscape, make n=10 if held by a squaddie and n=20 if held by a hero or somesuch.

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or his desserts are small
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to gain or lose it all
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  #12  
Old April 20th, 2011, 02:56 PM
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Re: The Slow Win

Wriggz,
I like the point system per match idea but you may want to also consider the soccer scoring system. At 3 pts per win and only 1 for a tie players will be keener on obtaining at least one win.

You could even add how many points were left on each army build at the end of each battle as a tie breaker at the end of the tourney.

Just when you thought it was all right, someone made it alright.

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Last edited by AMIS; April 20th, 2011 at 03:01 PM. Reason: Of course that doesn't help soccer scores that much.
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