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  #49  
Old July 15th, 2009, 11:36 PM
TheOtherGuy TheOtherGuy is offline
 
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Re: The Book of Deathwalker 9000

I have had some success using DW9K with Ornak in larger games. He provides a solid ranged special, and Ornak means that on order marker 1 you can provide a solid secondary attack. Sure, the deathwalker will fall easily to concentrated fire. But they are a lot less likely to concentrate fire on him when you're moving up krug at the same time.

I also found that when it worked, Ornak taking a turn with both the DW9K and the DW8K at the same time was ridiculously potent. Higher point games obviously.
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  #50  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 12:55 AM
Devil's Advocate Devil's Advocate is offline
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Re: The Book of Deathwalker 9000

The myth of Deathwalker 900 is that he is not competitive because of his 1 life. His real problem is his crappy explosion attack. Very few armies really need to clump and he lacks the speed to attack the start zone before they can spread out. Furthermore, so many units have explosion attacks that many alternative exist.

What Deathwalker 9000 needs is a much better special attack. If he had something like the Queglix Gun instead of Explosion, he would actually be decently playable. Would he be better than Q9, no but would represent an interesting alternative to him and Q10.
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  #51  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 01:00 AM
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Re: The Book of Deathwalker 9000

Soooo he should be Deathwalker 8000?

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  #52  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 01:06 AM
Devil's Advocate Devil's Advocate is offline
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Re: The Book of Deathwalker 9000

No even DW8k is only guaranteed 1 attack. Queglix conversely guarantees a minimum of 3 attacks. Imagine how much worse Queglix would be if you could only continue if a wound was inflicted.
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  #53  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 07:00 AM
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Re: The Book of Deathwalker 9000

DW9K is bad because he costs you Order Markers when he dies. His special isn't great, but it isn't the reason he's terrible.

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  #54  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 07:56 AM
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Re: The Book of Deathwalker 9000

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Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate View Post
The myth of Deathwalker 900 is that he is not competitive because of his 1 life. His real problem is his crappy explosion attack. Very few armies really need to clump and he lacks the speed to attack the start zone before they can spread out. Furthermore, so many units have explosion attacks that many alternative exist.

What Deathwalker 9000 needs is a much better special attack. If he had something like the Queglix Gun instead of Explosion, he would actually be decently playable. Would he be better than Q9, no but would represent an interesting alternative to him and Q10.
...Seriously?

You really do post just to start arguments, huh?

He's not bad because his special attack sucks. It's true there are better Special Attacks out there. But most units don't have ranged special attacks at all, so to say DW9K is weak because he has a bad special attack is naive at best and deliberately provocative at worst. DW9K is a lesser used figure because for an investment of 140 points, 9 defense and 1 life is unreliable. The dice statistics aren't a "myth." You know better.

Your shtick is cute and all DA, but c'mon. These forums are here for intelligent discourse about the game we enjoy, so don't post frivolous, stupid arguments just to provoke responses like this. Don't waste your time, and don't waste ours.


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  #55  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 11:14 AM
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Re: The Book of Deathwalker 9000

Sounds like it may be time for me to try another army with 9k in it. I think a lot of "bad" units are really pretty good most days. I've recently played with Monks, WCW, Kumiko, Acolarh, Tandros Kreel, SotM Raelin and MRT (not all in the same army) and had good experiences with all of them. They weren't tourney armies, but who wants to spend all their time focused solely on competition? Or perhaps more to the point, if you're only interested in tourney-competitive figures why bother with even thinking about units that you don't think are tourney-competitive?

How about this:

Deathwalker 9k 140
Nakita Agents 120
Feral Troll 90
3x Marro Dividers 150

Nakitas both offer multiple range and a range/melee shield of sorts for 9k. Dividers set up explosion attacks if your opponent isn't otherwise accomidating. The Feral Troll provides a tempting target to reduce the sheer number of attack rolls against 9k.

~Aldin, who also likes 9k as a counter draft to anything that works with adjacency

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  #56  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 12:53 PM
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Re: The Book of Deathwalker 9000

The special I can get over, the 1 life for 140 points is horrible.

Too many Auto wound units. DED, Sonlen, Thanadros, Fire elemental, Repulsors, I'm sure there are more. On top of that, one real good attack, or crappy def. roll and DW is toast. 9 Defense is great, but there is no room for error. Many folks fear the "Deathwalker roll", no sheilds against 1 skull. What I've found is 4 or more skulls, and DW fails to block that 9 out of 10 times.

Remember, law of averages says you'll get 3 sheilds on 9 dice.

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  #57  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 01:07 PM
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Re: The Book of Deathwalker 9000

The one life is the scariest thing for DW9k. Well, that coupled with 140 price tag. IF he had 2 life he would be that much better and would see much more action.

The one thing he does have going his way is the excitment factor. When 9K gets on the board all eyes go on him. Opponents drool over the 1 life, the players trembles at the one life and hopes his shields are hot. Each time 9k has to defend it is exciting because there is no room for error.

In one game he defended like a champ for me. Went toe-to-toe with Braxas and successfully defended against 4 skulls twice and 5 skulls once. It was epic, there was much excitment at the table that day. He did eventually lose to Braxas but he tied her up long enough for reinforcements to come and kill her off. I would say he did his job that day.

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  #58  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 01:19 PM
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Re: The Book of Deathwalker 9000

Quote:
Originally Posted by clancampbell View Post
The special I can get over, the 1 life for 140 points is horrible.

Too many Auto wound units. DED, Sonlen, Thanadros, Fire elemental, Repulsors, I'm sure there are more. On top of that, one real good attack, or crappy def. roll and DW is toast. 9 Defense is great, but there is no room for error. Many folks fear the "Deathwalker roll", no sheilds against 1 skull. What I've found is 4 or more skulls, and DW fails to block that 9 out of 10 times.

Remember, law of averages says you'll get 3 sheilds on 9 dice.
Yeah, but four skulls is something you often only see once or twice per game. Dan gets his autokill 10% of the time and not even Charos is immune to it (the no shield roll doesn't work against the Large DW9k), Sonlen needs to get within 4 spaces which is pretty preventable and he only has a 30% chance. Thanadros doesn't exist and neither Tandros nor Thanos has an autowound that affects DW9k. Fire Elementals and Repulsors have the same "get there" issue Sonlen has only more so.

When I've tested DW9k in the past, he's usually fallen to squads rolling over and over and over again against him until one finally breaks through. That means he can't survive in a standard tournament environment. It doesn't say anything about drafting or casual play.

~Aldin, who played him in one memorable game with Raelin and Deathstalkers (he blanked a roll with 12 defense dice )

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  #59  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 01:36 PM
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Re: The Book of Deathwalker 9000

I'll expand on "the real problem with DW9K" that I started to mention above:

DW9K is most effective when he has Order Markers piled onto him. Why? Because your opponent wants to make you lose turns, therefore they're going to attack 9K. If you're trying to make 9K work, this is what you want. You want those 9 defense dice to make your opponent's attacks completely ineffective while you're killing his guys. His strength is making your opponent waste attacks - not maximizing on his own. If he only kills 80-90 Points, that might be just fine if your opponent's attacks, if directed elsewhere, would've killed 200 Points of yours.

The problem is what happens when he dies. Since you're stacked up with OM's on him, you're very likely to lose a turn or two when he's killed off. Those 1-2 lost turns can oftentimes make up for all those attacks your opponent lost while shooting at him. He always has just one life left, so you have to keep giving him OM's - unlike Nilfheim or Q10 where you're hesitant to give them OM's when they have 1 Life left, and therefore lose fewer turns when they die.

After thinking about that, I conclude that the #3 Order Marker is terrible for 9K to have. But, since you need to be loading him up with OM's, I'd say the best configuration for him is 1,2,X while giving someone else the 3. The Zettian Guards might be a nice 3 spot, since they can then move up and get the Range Enhancement.

This is another reason why I like Ornak builds with Deathwalkers. If your opponent wins initiative and kills a DW on their first turn, Ornak can activate something else instead.

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  #60  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 01:39 PM
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Re: The Book of Deathwalker 9000

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin View Post
Thanadros doesn't exist and neither Tandros nor Thanos has an autowound that affects DW9k.
You are correct Thanadros doesn't exsist. To the custom forms...........
.........lets see a "kill the Deathwalker" special......

Seriously, I meant Thandros, I didn't remember that Cleave had a size restriction.

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