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  #97  
Old November 19th, 2022, 02:23 PM
FrankensteinsMonster FrankensteinsMonster is offline
 
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Seen this same sentiment with others. Hasbro got us excited by specifically saying Heroscape IS back to then take little risk of their own, putting the onus on us, then go on and threaten/create worry in others that if WE donít do the work, itís NOT coming back. Thatís just the start! I said WE do the work because they clearly abandoned this campaign they ďworked so very hard onĒ. Pfft.

I tell you this. Hasbro can buzz off. Their antics burned this bridge.
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  #98  
Old November 19th, 2022, 03:44 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by rudyvalentine View Post

Thatís how I see it too, not a deal breaker but a missed opportunity. I know I wasnít blown away with excitement the first time I scrolled down the page looking at the new units. The ones that got me the most excited were the stretch goals.
I was on the Hereoscapers Fb page when the early art concepts were being dropped there. This is someone unscientific, I know, but I paid attention to the "Likes" on the different units that were presented and by far the ones what received the highest number of likes were the Classic 'Scape units-the ones eventually locked behind unattainable backer #s.

That was a slap in the face to the Heroscape community and should have been an indication that veteran backers were NOT asking for all new stuff, but more of the same from classic.
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  #99  
Old November 19th, 2022, 05:01 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by GamerDad74 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudyvalentine View Post

Thatís how I see it too, not a deal breaker but a missed opportunity. I know I wasnít blown away with excitement the first time I scrolled down the page looking at the new units. The ones that got me the most excited were the stretch goals.
I was on the Hereoscapers Fb page when the early art concepts were being dropped there. This is someone unscientific, I know, but I paid attention to the "Likes" on the different units that were presented and by far the ones what received the highest number of likes were the Classic 'Scape units-the ones eventually locked behind unattainable backer #s.

That was a slap in the face to the Heroscape community and should have been an indication that veteran backers were NOT asking for all new stuff, but more of the same from classic.
There is speculation that the decision to place the SotM units behind stretch goals was one made by Hasbro; in other words, the stretch goals may have been a contractual requirement for the campaign. Again, this has only been speculated.

My take is that if the above isn't true, then placing the SotM units behind stretch goals was likely an intentional marketing strategy decision made by AH/Hasbro in (a miscalculated) attempt to drum up further backer support. Out of all of the units in Vanguard, the SotM figures would be (and were) the units that garnered the most excitement, so AH's thought process was likely that if they moved the goalpost for fans to acquire those units, then there would be additional backers.

If the people in charge of the campaign had been paying attention, they would have realized that placing the most desired units - the SotM units - out of reach would exhaust backers' momentum right out of the gate. A smarter and likely more successful approach would have been to include the SotM units in the base set, and lock either a faction or the Kyrie behind stretch goals. This way, everything unlocked after the minimum backer goal would just be gravy, so to speak.

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  #100  
Old November 19th, 2022, 06:11 PM
RobertDD RobertDD is offline
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

4,040 heroscapers.com members, and expecting 8,000 backers: right there is your failure. Iím surprised they got 4,000 people to pledge $250, and that should be considered a huge success. $1,000,000 is also nothing to sneeze at.

Heroscape is painted figures. I wouldíve liked to see that continue. I wouldíve paid more for less figures. And Iím actually a mini painter, but I have a fairly high quality demand of the minis I paint and Iím sure Hasbro minis wonít meet that standard.

But I donít think that wouldíve changed things too much. If the nostalgia market you dip into is 4,000 members, then youíre just not going to get 8,000 nostalgia backers, and they did NOTHING to get backers anywhere else.

Maybe Hasbro will sell the license to another developer. Maybe (Iím getting cynical here) this was all just a way to show a potential buyer the value of the property. Restoration Games, a company by Rob Daviau, another Heroscape alumnus, is reprinting a lot of old time classics. And remember the ďbut we learned a lotĒ sentence in their failure statement?

They are done! Version 1.00 is out: Books of HeroScape in pdf format
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  #101  
Old November 19th, 2022, 06:12 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Scaper94 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GamerDad74 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudyvalentine View Post

Thatís how I see it too, not a deal breaker but a missed opportunity. I know I wasnít blown away with excitement the first time I scrolled down the page looking at the new units. The ones that got me the most excited were the stretch goals.
I was on the Hereoscapers Fb page when the early art concepts were being dropped there. This is someone unscientific, I know, but I paid attention to the "Likes" on the different units that were presented and by far the ones what received the highest number of likes were the Classic 'Scape units-the ones eventually locked behind unattainable backer #s.

That was a slap in the face to the Heroscape community and should have been an indication that veteran backers were NOT asking for all new stuff, but more of the same from classic.
There is speculation that the decision to place the SotM units behind stretch goals was one made by Hasbro; in other words, the stretch goals may have been a contractual requirement for the campaign. Again, this has only been speculated.

My take is that if the above isn't true, then placing the SotM units behind stretch goals was likely an intentional marketing strategy decision made by AH/Hasbro in (a miscalculated) attempt to drum up further backer support. Out of all of the units in Vanguard, the SotM figures would be (and were) the units that garnered the most excitement, so AH's thought process was likely that if they moved the goalpost for fans to acquire those units, then there would be additional backers.

If the people in charge of the campaign had been paying attention, they would have realized that placing the most desired units - the SotM units - out of reach would exhaust backers' momentum right out of the gate. A smarter and likely more successful approach would have been to include the SotM units in the base set, and lock either a faction or the Kyrie behind stretch goals. This way, everything unlocked after the minimum backer goal would just be gravy, so to speak.
The whole thing reeks of not knowing what youíre selling or who youíre selling it to. The campaign would have been chased off of Kickstarter by an angry mob if it had launched the same way the Haslab did, with 5-6 main photos, no contents, no rules, no explanation, no videos, and no cards shown.

That they thought that effort was worthy of $2-4 million is insane.

That they based their core decisions on best guesses and ďhypothesisĒ instead of actual research is insane.

If you wanted to write a book or teach a college course on how not to execute a crowdfunding campaign, there is enough material here to serve as the sole case study.
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  #102  
Old November 19th, 2022, 08:22 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

I’m just upset we’ll never get Zed. He was the unit I was most looking forward to. Even more than any of the SotM heroes.
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  #103  
Old November 19th, 2022, 09:22 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
I personally think it was odd and less than ideal to:

1. Introduce so many new factions all at once including some that felt only mildly different than classic factions

2. Not have much continuation at all of classic factions, including those with only small factional buds that could've really used some love

3. Talk up the faction part of things soooo much in marketing when really the factions themselves don't make that much of a difference in gameplay

You could largely repeat these three points about the new Generals as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudyvalentine View Post
I think it was the stylistic differences referenced earlier and in other threads that put people off of these factions. They werenít the pirate faction or the cyborg faction, they were all much more specific which in itself is a departure from the classic game.

As previous stated in this thread, the lore was a significant part of this relaunch and effort was made to explain the factions and their backgrounds, but when it comes down to what Heroscape is at its core (orcs, elves, robots, soldiers, aliens, samurai, etc.), the scope is broader than Ironclad Collective and Clockwork Combine.

Itís just a different aesthetic and an unnecessary one to a lot of folks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMIS View Post
For my part, I've stated that if you're selling nostalgia, the product needs to be the same as it was, which includes similar cards, excellent designs, awesome sculpts and painted figures. A check on everything but the last...so it isn't Heroscape (the Heroscape of nostalgia).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogg View Post
The original game had synergistic figure groups but they were never called "Factions" and they didn't overshadow the alliances to the Generals. And they didn't all come out at once.

It was just one more weird thing added to the game by someone who didn't get Heroscape to begin with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Scaper94 View Post
I don't mind having factions as an abstract idea in HS, but they never have been nor should be a marketed focus. If a faction happens to come about due to certain design decisions, that's great. But, as others have said, that's not at the forefront of what HS is as a game or as a product.
Got it, makes more sense to me now. FWIW I don't necessarily disagree, maybe my tolerance for getting away from the original product is higher? Not that that's a good thing either.

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  #104  
Old November 19th, 2022, 11:53 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Thanks for that video @Sir Heroscape . I tried following a similar tact, staying mostly positive throughout the campaign, even though I was screaming silently in my head. You hit it all squarely on the head.

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  #105  
Old November 20th, 2022, 07:18 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Movin' Right Along...

To Pumpkin King and other Airship Seekers like myself:


For my new version of Air Marshal Zed Nesbitt, see here:

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...99#post2547999

We must not remain Airship Berift!
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  #106  
Old November 20th, 2022, 11:40 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

I didn't back for several reasons.

Money.

Only 1 choice. Sorry but I have 4 big totes of terrain. 3 of lava, ice and jungle, 4 road, 25 castle sets, 6 ms rotv, 3 marro and 6 d&d. I dont want more terrain.

I waited until after the campaign to speak my peace. Hasbro is the biggest reason for me not backing. They have always mismanaged this game. The way this campaign was handled is the same way our community and this game have always been treated by hasbro. I can go on forever about this. Remember the D&D fiasco. "Its either this or cancelation." WotC/Hasbro/AH its all the same. They added a new general hyped it up. Released some small packs that sold all their stock of and then released 4 and only 4 squad units for valkril while Utgar has the biggest pile of card board. Then almost a year later Oh yea Herscape isn't raking in the numbers so it was shelved. This burn is probably one of the key factors for low numbers. I was watching closely to see how Hasbro would handle it. Same hasbro crap different year. I am glad I didn't back this game. Even if funded hasbro would have axed it. I can now rest and finally sell off all my heroscape stuff without any regrets. I almost fell down this rabbit hole again with all the new unit hype but I stuck to my principles. Heroscape or no Heroscape I wont support hasbro.
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  #107  
Old November 21st, 2022, 02:31 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

So thatís it? No further word from Avalon Hill or anything? Itís really frustrating despite having funded over a million dollars for this campaign that there was nothing they could do to sell this game. I donít care about the box set, even if it meant I had to pay more overall for several smaller packs. @Sir Heroscape nailed my frustration in his video, they assured us heroscape is back, but only if we raised an absurd amount of money with only one tier of support of a website made for collectibles. Real carrot and stick move by AH.

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  #108  
Old November 21st, 2022, 02:45 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

I mean, what do you expect? They released a notice that there was nothing planned in the future, which was consistent with what they originally said about if it didn't fund, they wouldn't go forward with anything. They've been super clear about their terms from the beginning of the campaign period (the crappiness of which frustrated many of us from the get go).

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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