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  #13  
Old May 26th, 2018, 08:05 AM
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Re: Build Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscaper 101 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
If I had to break it down, here's what I'd do:

4 attacks/turn @ 3 attack dice = 50 pts
3 defense = 0 points
5 move = 0 points
disengage = 5 points
bonding = 15 points

Are you certain that will total to 70 points and why does defense & move cost nothing.
I'm pretty sure he's saying that defense and move are 0 points because they are average

Mimring>Krug. 'Nuff said.
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  #14  
Old May 26th, 2018, 08:09 AM
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Re: Build Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscaper 101 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
To use official units as examples as to why price formulas don't work, I'm gonna pull a couple cards.

First we're going to pull a fairly competitive unit, a squad that's almost always worth its points in salt, and one of my favorites.



And now we'll look at another fairly competitive squad, who are also almost always worth they points, and also get a bit of my love. But they aren't monsters.



As we can see both squads have a bunch of things in common.

Common Squad
5 movement
1 range
3 attack
3 defense
Bonding
A secondary power
70 points

However, a big difference between the two units is the number of figures in each squad. The Heavy Gruts have 4 members while the Capuan Gladiators are only 3 members. This means a number of things, including attacks per turn and bang for your buck in terms of overall army size. 3 Squads of Heavy Gruts gets you as many figures as 4 squads of Capuan Gladiators for a lot cheaper.

If we were to look at the power sets for directly pricing a unit, we could look at the secondary powers of these two very similar units.

The Orcs have Disengage, a fairly common power among the Orcs, which is an excellent power for a squad figure to have. Since squad figures have only one life, they normally have a 50% or less chance to successfully run away from enemy figures. The Orcs don't have have to worry about those odds anymore.

The Gladiators have Initiative Advantage, which is not all that great of a power. A maximum of +3 to your initiative roll is not likely to swing initiative your way very often, and even then the power dictates that all of your Order Markers need to be on Gladiator cards to even get the benefit.

So, I'd say the Gladiators got the short end of the stick in terms of balance. Or maybe not, since it is largely agreed that the Gladiator army is actually fairly solid in both casual settings and competitive ones. The reason is not because the Capuans are actually evenly balanced with the Gruts, but because of the very specific Army the Capuans fit into. The Heavy Gruts are worth their 70 points, and don't really need to be supported with a very specific unit to get their value in a match. They have a wide variety of Orc Champions who will all give them something they like a lot, and support them just enough. But, the Capuans need Spartacus to be worth their 70 points, just like Spartacus needs them to be worth 200.

I am not sure about the point value of abilities, just started this thread to see the true point value of army cards.
The point of that post was to show that it’s not always the army card itself that determines the price. I chose two official units because the official cards technically can’t be erratad anymore, since heroscape has been cancelled.

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  #15  
Old May 26th, 2018, 08:09 AM
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Re: Build Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscaper 101 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
To use official units as examples as to why price formulas don't work, I'm gonna pull a couple cards.

First we're going to pull a fairly competitive unit, a squad that's almost always worth its points in salt, and one of my favorites.



And now we'll look at another fairly competitive squad, who are also almost always worth they points, and also get a bit of my love. But they aren't monsters.



As we can see both squads have a bunch of things in common.

Common Squad
5 movement
1 range
3 attack
3 defense
Bonding
A secondary power
70 points

However, a big difference between the two units is the number of figures in each squad. The Heavy Gruts have 4 members while the Capuan Gladiators are only 3 members. This means a number of things, including attacks per turn and bang for your buck in terms of overall army size. 3 Squads of Heavy Gruts gets you as many figures as 4 squads of Capuan Gladiators for a lot cheaper.

If we were to look at the power sets for directly pricing a unit, we could look at the secondary powers of these two very similar units.

The Orcs have Disengage, a fairly common power among the Orcs, which is an excellent power for a squad figure to have. Since squad figures have only one life, they normally have a 50% or less chance to successfully run away from enemy figures. The Orcs don't have have to worry about those odds anymore.

The Gladiators have Initiative Advantage, which is not all that great of a power. A maximum of +3 to your initiative roll is not likely to swing initiative your way very often, and even then the power dictates that all of your Order Markers need to be on Gladiator cards to even get the benefit.

So, I'd say the Gladiators got the short end of the stick in terms of balance. Or maybe not, since it is largely agreed that the Gladiator army is actually fairly solid in both casual settings and competitive ones. The reason is not because the Capuans are actually evenly balanced with the Gruts, but because of the very specific Army the Capuans fit into. The Heavy Gruts are worth their 70 points, and don't really need to be supported with a very specific unit to get their value in a match. They have a wide variety of Orc Champions who will all give them something they like a lot, and support them just enough. But, the Capuans need Spartacus to be worth their 70 points, just like Spartacus needs them to be worth 200.

I am not sure about the point value of abilities, just started this thread to see the true point value of army cards.
Right, and abilities play a huge component in that. Stats alone can mean everything or nothing on a unit. As many have said, comparisons are best, and a static calculator probably won't work

Mimring>Krug. 'Nuff said.
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  #16  
Old May 26th, 2018, 10:22 AM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Build Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrow Grut View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscaper 101 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
To use official units as examples as to why price formulas don't work, I'm gonna pull a couple cards.

First we're going to pull a fairly competitive unit, a squad that's almost always worth its points in salt, and one of my favorites.



And now we'll look at another fairly competitive squad, who are also almost always worth they points, and also get a bit of my love. But they aren't monsters.



As we can see both squads have a bunch of things in common.

Common Squad
5 movement
1 range
3 attack
3 defense
Bonding
A secondary power
70 points

However, a big difference between the two units is the number of figures in each squad. The Heavy Gruts have 4 members while the Capuan Gladiators are only 3 members. This means a number of things, including attacks per turn and bang for your buck in terms of overall army size. 3 Squads of Heavy Gruts gets you as many figures as 4 squads of Capuan Gladiators for a lot cheaper.

If we were to look at the power sets for directly pricing a unit, we could look at the secondary powers of these two very similar units.

The Orcs have Disengage, a fairly common power among the Orcs, which is an excellent power for a squad figure to have. Since squad figures have only one life, they normally have a 50% or less chance to successfully run away from enemy figures. The Orcs don't have have to worry about those odds anymore.

The Gladiators have Initiative Advantage, which is not all that great of a power. A maximum of +3 to your initiative roll is not likely to swing initiative your way very often, and even then the power dictates that all of your Order Markers need to be on Gladiator cards to even get the benefit.

So, I'd say the Gladiators got the short end of the stick in terms of balance. Or maybe not, since it is largely agreed that the Gladiator army is actually fairly solid in both casual settings and competitive ones. The reason is not because the Capuans are actually evenly balanced with the Gruts, but because of the very specific Army the Capuans fit into. The Heavy Gruts are worth their 70 points, and don't really need to be supported with a very specific unit to get their value in a match. They have a wide variety of Orc Champions who will all give them something they like a lot, and support them just enough. But, the Capuans need Spartacus to be worth their 70 points, just like Spartacus needs them to be worth 200.

I am not sure about the point value of abilities, just started this thread to see the true point value of army cards.
Right, and abilities play a huge component in that. Stats alone can mean everything or nothing on a unit. As many have said, comparisons are best, and a static calculator probably won't work

Made some changes to the build calculator.
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  #17  
Old November 28th, 2018, 11:29 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Lightbulb Re: Special Power Calculator

I am thinking of adding ranks to special powers, like rank 1, 2 & 3 for those powers. A good example is Hive Supremacy rank 3 who gives +3 to marro and wulsinu D20 rolls, but it will take up 3 slots. You will not see Wounded Smash on others Trolls, that special power is just for Krug only. Some of the powers are species or class or size required. This will negate the point cost on movement, range, attack, defense and number of figures.

I will follow custom rules and only include 3 special power slots. There will be no C3G included in this thread, so their powers will stay the same. It will come down to strategy when powers are involved, because you have only 3 slots for powers.

Last edited by Heroscaper 101; November 29th, 2018 at 01:48 PM.
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  #18  
Old November 29th, 2018, 12:20 PM
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Re: Build Calculator

See YACE (Yet Another Cost Estimator)
YACE Description
YACE Special Powers Description
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  #19  
Old November 29th, 2018, 01:15 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Special Power Calculator 11/29/18

Rank 1 = 1 slot

Rank 2 = 2 slots

Rank 3 = 3 slots


Human Gladiator Bonding Rank 1 = 15 points

Initiative Advantage Rank 3 = 10 points

Initiative Advantage Rank 2 = 8 points

Initiative Advantage Rank 1 = 6 points

Last edited by Heroscaper 101; November 29th, 2018 at 01:46 PM.
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  #20  
Old November 29th, 2018, 01:19 PM
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Re: Build Calculator

I'm confused. What are these "Ranks", and what is the purpose of this thread? Is it to create a point cost estimator for customs?
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  #21  
Old November 29th, 2018, 02:18 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Build Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
I'm confused. What are these "Ranks", and what is the purpose of this thread? Is it to create a point cost estimator for customs?
A example of this would be Hive Supremacy, this power requires a Marro Hivelord. This version will require some playtesting, but you will be using the advanced side of the card, but the special powers will be blank. It might require some cards for these special powers.

Hive Supremacy Rank 1 gives +1 to marro or wulsinu D20 rolls and may cost 115 points

Hive Supremacy Rank 2 gives +2 to marro or wulsinu D20 rolls, may cost 155 points, requires 2 slots for the special power and costs 40 more points

Hive Supremacy Rank 3 gives +3 to marro or wulsinu D20 rolls, may cost 205 points, requires 3 slots for the special power and costs 60 more points

The Classic Heroscape is excluded from this version. You can spend 205 points on an overpowered Hivelord or the regular 160 points for Su-Bak-Na.
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  #22  
Old November 29th, 2018, 02:23 PM
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Re: Special Power Calculator

What do you mean by "slots"?

Are you saying that Hive Supremacy adds 115 points to a card's cost? If so, that's absurdly high.
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  #23  
Old November 29th, 2018, 03:18 PM
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Re: Build Calculator

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Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
Never hurts to say things twice
I applaud the effort, but perhaps instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, make use of what resources are already out there and you will have more time to devote to improving your units.
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  #24  
Old November 29th, 2018, 04:14 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Special Power Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
What do you mean by "slots"?

Are you saying that Hive Supremacy adds 115 points to a card's cost? If so, that's absurdly high.
I am not that certain that it costs that much alone. The Custom Heroscape consists of only 3 special powers like this:

You might fit a Rank 3 skill and a Rank 1 skill, but it will cost more points like 250 or something. It depends on what you want use more of.
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