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  #1117  
Old October 16th, 2006, 03:43 PM
reapersaurus reapersaurus is offline
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LordRaidor - you told me that you'd reveal why your first Mindshackled vote that first night was late in being posted, even though you'd been online for at least a half-hour before......

Can you reveal that now?

It really threw a monkeywrench into the deductive reasoning of the Warriors in this game....
  #1118  
Old October 16th, 2006, 04:01 PM
RPMiller RPMiller is offline
 
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From the OOC thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jormi_Boced
I think the reason it didn't scare anyone is because he used his family and military service as a playing pawn.
Yes, and that one fact is what caused us so much pain and hardship. With Reaper's staunch backing of skynight's oath being true there is no way that anyone in the game could convince me that that oath didn't carry considerable weight.

Also, for most of the game as IntoAshes mentioned she was silent even in our discussions which meant that we really only had 3 active shackled most of the time. No offense IntoAshes and I can understand and sympathize with your shyness, but that did handicap us a bit as we weren't able to create as many alliances as we had hoped.

The very first day I mentioned to the shackled that we needed to make our night vote immediately after the day vote ended to keep from being discovered at night. I believe I mentioned it to LR as well that that was what we were going to do. That probably hurt us a bit as well because we were talking amongst ourselves during the day and, at least for myself, wasn't paying closer attention to what was being posted.

As for our voting pattern, (my fellow shackled can clarify if I get anything wrong here) the first night's vote for the monk was actually based on his level of quietness and non-aggressiveness. It just happened that he was the first one in the list. The second night the vote was similarly chosen without regard to the list, but happened to be the next name on the list. Then the warriors pointed out the top down strategy and we went 'ok, that works for now'. We voted in that method while trying to find a good choice for seer and then started bouncing around obviously following false leads. Good job warriors!

Not voting out Nilf was a conscious decision that we made based on the hope that we could raise enough doubt about him that he would go in a day vote, but obviously his oath was taken more seriously whether consciously or unconsciouly than we knew. In hindsight, I agree that we really should have taken him our sooner, but honestly I don't think it would have mattered based on the posting even after he went down. He did an excellent job of putting himself in a position that we shackled couldn't defeat. In fact, the only reason we took him out was because of his feint at being the seer. Again, nice play by sky! Well done.

As for myself, I am very curious to hear what I did to tip my hand honestly. My playing up to joining Nilf and helping him was a bit dangerous in that I could have been marked for seeing by the visionary so I had to go easy in that regard, but was able to pretty much use Brotharon the entire time, I think. Which really baffles me if he played such a big role in the overall scheme of things. Perhaps that is why I finally got taken out because I became too 'obvious' of a warrior and had to be checked to be sure? I would like to know how that went down.
  #1119  
Old October 16th, 2006, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mystic Blue
... (And Valhalla Times had me ROFLing the whole time! Who does that, it's awesome!)
The writer/editor of that rag is none other than our own very talented and very funny Mr. Bistro. A great all around guy who, with any luck, really hasn't given up on the Valhalla Times just yet and there may yet be future issues on the Horizon ...

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  #1120  
Old October 16th, 2006, 06:53 PM
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Roleplay goes to Sniper

Most fun I'm giving to Nilfheim

I have to give a close second vote to Syvarris. That whole "ambiguous" sexual orientation thing was pretty funny. I had to give the nod to Nilfheim because he was kind of the voice of the scheming that I didn't get to see.
  #1121  
Old October 16th, 2006, 08:47 PM
reapersaurus reapersaurus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPMiller
With Reaper's staunch backing of skynight's oath being true there is no way that anyone in the game could convince me that that oath didn't carry considerable weight.
This was the one thing I was working towards - for the oath (as inappropriate as I thought it was) not to be forgotten, and to be used as a leverage point the whole game thru. One thing the Warriors could put their hat on. Without something to hold onto, the Warriors are too easy prey to the Shackled's coordinated disinformation campaign.

Quote:
As for myself, I am very curious to hear what I did to tip my hand honestly.
I would like to know how that went down.
Well, you can ask funrun why she chose to vision you.
For my part, I can relate how some of that happened:

I had cleared you as a Warrior. I was obviously wrong.
But I made that thought clear to funrun, who had you in her list of top 3 to check for. I said "Vision the AE, or Kelda, but anyone but Drake".
Well, right before the day vote before she was gonna vision, I told her not to bother Visioning the AE, cause I thought I could put enough doubt on him if needed from his earlier votes and posts. So I said Vision anyone else (including you), preferably Kelda.

She kept her own counsel, though, and chose to vision you. I don't know why, but it WAS a stab in the dark, any way you slice it. I think a lot of the endgame becomes "can the Shackled guess the Seer before the Seer guesses the Shackled?"
And I am thinking it is a LOT easier to find the Seer than it is to find all the Shackled. The Seer will probably have to protect their "warrior self" eventually, if they get the finger pointed at them like most Warriors do.
In hindsight, I think the Seer has to almost shut up anbout the whole game, and just play as a disinterested Warrior in public, or else they will be on a short list of active Warriors. This is where funrun misplayed it, I think - she was WAY too suspicious in her activeness. She was so active and advocate, she appeared more like a Shackled than a Warrior. And once the list of known Warriors came out, she coulda been gotten easily along with me, Venoc, and Nilf.


And the Shackled have my sympathy for having one of them being unable to be that active in this game - as I said in the game, the Shackled need EVERY one of them to be active, and choosing different approaches to cover each other's disinformation.
In fact, Kelda's biggest proof of innocence to me was that she hadn't been active at all - I simply couldn;t fathom how a Shackled would be so uninvolved, when the Shackled need every member of their cabal to pull off what the have to.
  #1122  
Old October 16th, 2006, 09:44 PM
RPMiller RPMiller is offline
 
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I agree about the need for active shackled. We actually went to emails instead of PMs to make mass communication between us easier and even that broke down at some point. I think if we did anything wrong it had to be talking less. Thankfully Jormi was experienced and Slade had things figured out pretty early on and were able to pass on their ideas on how to play pretty quickly. I really feel sorry that IntoAshes wasn't able to participate more. I really tried to pull her into our discussions, but RL issues were obviously keeping her distracted. I will say that everytime she did contribute though she really did an awesome job. My hat off to you IntoAshes for not only being a newbie, but also being as active as you were considering the circumstances, and for Jormi and Slade once again thank you guys for helping me get up to speed.
  #1123  
Old October 16th, 2006, 10:11 PM
JuicerGM JuicerGM is offline
 
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RPMiller what went wrong I think was pointed out by the AE in the game you had points that you waffled on. You seemed to be stabbing in the dark too much and then your notebook thing. I am going to reveal, oh no I'm not. I had you on my list for a while you just kept getting pushed down because louder targets came available. I do think that the shackled's worst problem was the "I am not shackled, your wasting your vote" defense. That was pretty much a deal sealer for me and the AE helped me out on some of it.
  #1124  
Old October 16th, 2006, 10:21 PM
RPMiller RPMiller is offline
 
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And what is funny about that is that I really do/did have a spreadsheet I was going to share, but time constraints kept me from cleaning it up. LOL I guess I would have been condemned either way anyway.

I have to agree with Reaper that the only real way for the shackled to win is to take out the Visionary before the Visionary finds them. There is a chance for deception to win, but I think that is rarer.
  #1125  
Old October 16th, 2006, 10:30 PM
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Mystic Blue Mystic Blue is offline
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JuicerGM basically made the point for me :P. There were three instances where you posted judgements that seemed really hasty to me, RP (abbreviating because I hear it in my head when I type and saying "RPMiller" sounds ridiculous in my mind ), and that pattern made me suspicious. Those three times -- when the Venoc Warlord offered to drink, when the KoW answered your questions, and just after you voted for Raelin -- were all instances where I was questioning why a warrior would say or do a particular thing, but you sounded overly convinced of the right of the situations. Like Juicer said, though, louder targets kept popping up in front of you. Still, you did an excellent job of staying below the radar, talking, but not talking too much. The key to playing a successful 'Shackled team seems to be varying styles of play.

I wonder if we'll ever get to a point where, after the first game DAY or two, the warriors will just name off a list of people who are playing far too differently from their normal style that they must be 'Shackled?


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  #1126  
Old October 16th, 2006, 11:35 PM
RPMiller RPMiller is offline
 
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I see. Thanks for the info everyone. I'll definitely keep that in mind in the future should I play again.

I debated just abstaining from the Venoc vote, but felt that doing so would make me look like I didn't care and thus shackled. My reply to the KoW's response was based on both Nilf saying 'see there he has good reasons' which I had been trying to get on Nilf's good side so I thought agreeing with him would help me, but apparently I should have been more aggresive and challenging. Interesting... I don't recall the just after Raelin vote, but we had agreed that we had to vote for her or look conspicuous.
  #1127  
Old October 17th, 2006, 01:01 AM
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Mystic Blue Mystic Blue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPMiller
I don't recall the just after Raelin vote, but we had agreed that we had to vote for her or look conspicuous.
See, that's because I was misremembering (it's been less than a month and I'm already forgetting details, jeez! :P). My bad! What I meant was the WoA vote . Jormi had sent out a bunch of PMs declaring the WoA innocent, thusly damning her. It was a very clever tactic, really. Anyway, you jumped in after your vote, casting doubt on the veracity of those PMs and the WoA's guilt. It seemed convenient timing to me, that's all .

BTW, I'm totally not knocking your play style or how you played this game. The things I mentioned were the meat of my argument against you and, really, they came down to gut feelings, which are pretty unreliable when you come right down to it. Even then, you stayed way down at the bottom of my list for a long time because the incidents could easily have been the actions of an overzealous warrior. I was impressed with the 'Shackled overall, really. The very obvious tells, like close association or similar arguments, never showed up that I could see. I always enjoy a game with good opponents .


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  #1128  
Old October 17th, 2006, 01:09 AM
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skyknight skyknight is offline
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Rp you got visioned because Funrun and I decided it had to be. She thought you were a bit suspicious and like I said, when you folded your hand so quick when I challenged you, well that was enough reason for me to give a big thumbs up to Funrun. Not that I blame you for doing what you did, sometimes its hard to know just how far to push things. Sometimes you have to be a mouse and other times a lion.

Someone mentioned getting voted out because you do not act the same. I was wondering about this as well. If I get to be Sir Hawthorne, but now serving Jandar I plan on playing him very different. Also I wonder if people will hold grudges into the next game. Lord I hope not.

Has anyone heard from Slade yet???
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