Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

[Grishnakh]

Originally Posted by Jim

You are correct that it does not say the word HeroScape anywhere on it. However, a rose, by any other name...

I said we were discussing it, not that it is a done deal. It may not happen. However, if it does, that will not take any of the HeroScape out of the site. Besides, if this is a HeroScape fan site, why do we even have an "OFF TOPIC" section (with such forum titles as "General," "Other Media," and even "Other Games")? Personally, I think that M:tG:AotP is, in a big part, HeroScape. If it were to get its own sub forum (which you don't even need to visit) then that's ok. However, it is not up to me, so I can' tell you what will happen.


And you are also right that you do not want to **** in my Cheerios.

Completely agree with you about the Cheerios.

In all honesty I needed to chime in here with the opposing view, I didn't feel that it was being represented. If you look over the forums everything there is HeroScape related. Only at the end do you have the Off-Topic section. Now I have no idea why the fans that created this site decided to create that sub-forum. Perhaps we're all geeks and gamers and have different interests other than HeroScape? Probably. But they were smart to include it at the end, as a separate sub-forum, a catch all if you will. I certainly have made use of it in the 43 threads I've started on this site in the past 9 years.

Now I'm going to disagree with you and say the opposite: I don't feel that M:tG:AotP is, in any way, HeroScape. It's certainly based on Heroscape. But it's more of a step child if you will, and thus should be left in other games. It certainly was not marketed as a "made by the creators of, and compatible with, HeroScape".

So I put it to you, taken to it's logical conclusion if you feel that M:tG:AotP deserves a sub-forum then I think that HeroQuest and BattleMasters deserve one as well. They are just as related as M:tG:AotP, maybe even more so since Heroscape grew out of them.

Regardless, what I say probably doesn't matter that much around here anyway. But I did want to at least express the opposing viewpoint.

[Grungebob]

The question would be: Does the MTG product generate a lot of discussion? Does that discussion relate to Heroscape more than it does to the greater other gaming as a whole? My gut tells me this will generate Heroscape style discussions and I stand behind my gut... literally.

[Grishnakh]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

I would call it Heroscape related. I think it would be silly not to accept this as a Heroscape product since the compatibility is extreme.

Well, I knew my thoughts would not necessarily be popular. And I agree with you that it is Heroscape related. But no way should it get an entire sub-forum as suggested. I feel that if this gets special treatment what about all of the other games that are also similarly related? Again, I have no issue with it being placed in Other Games as a sub-forum. Just not as a major Forum like Marvel as mentioned.

I'd like to add here's the listing that we currently have of forums:

Official Classic Heroscape
Custom Heroscape Creations
Marvel Legends Heroscape
Heroscape Community
Off-Topic

This is a Heroscape site. Magic belongs in other games, it's not a Heroscape product. I hopefully you see my point here.

[jwsanner2]

Originally Posted by Chachi

This is going to go the way of Battleship Galaxies. Scapers want more heroscape and Mtg players stick to their overpriced decks of cards. If they actually integrate this with heroscape or put out official rules for play, it could help. But this really isn't bridging any gaps as it is an entirely new and different game. I still have my copy and will play as a standalone and also play some custom stuff. I won't hold my breath for expansions or integration.

The pessimism is just so delightful.

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by Chachi

Scapers want more heroscape and Mtg players stick to their overpriced decks of cards.

That's... hmmm.

Scapers are pretty wide-ranging, you know. The amount of male diversity on this board is impressive with folks confirming all sorts of different interests in games, music, religion, politics, movies, television and just about any other topic you could name. We don't have a lot of female Scapers, which is sub-optimal but probably not particularly relevant to the immediate concern.

Implying that Scapers will reject this game because they want more heroscape feels a lot like saying that no one is going to try a new Mexican restaurant in town because people like one that already exists. I'm sure there are some who wouldn't venture out, but I think a lot of folks would give it a shot - who knows - they might really like it!

I rather suspect that there's a fair bit of diversity in MtG players as well. I'm not really a member of that community, but I've been reading some things because I plan on playing Magic Duels Origins when it releases for PC and I wanted to dip my toes in. At least a few of the articles I was seeing were written by boardgamers who also play Magic.

So the idea that there are significant groups of people who might want to try this seems obvious to me just based on the existing fans of the two worlds getting married here. And that doesn't even begin to take a stab at what I think is the real target audience. I think the real target audience is folks who play "light" games and are curious about MtG but aren't willing to try to get past the entry barrier into a long running game with thousands of long-time players.

I think they want to get students playing. I think they want to get gamers who feel like they missed out on the MtG experience or that it is too expensive a hobby. I think this is an entry drug for the curious.

By the way... I fall into one of those categories myself. I'm eager to get this on my table as someone who feels like they've been missing out on the MtG experience and that the barrier of entry was too costly. I want to introduce my son and daughter to the game as another easy way to get them around the table.

It could go the way of BSG. I hope it doesn't. I really liked BSG. Having said that, I think the properties involved are a lot hotter and that the relatively inexpensive price point is going to put this under a lot of Christmas trees. So here's hoping!

~Aldin, with fingers crossed

[Chachi]

Originally Posted by jwsanner2

The pessimism is just so delightful.

I can't help it. Love this game but any hope after its initial cancelation has led to utter disappointment. Just being realistic. I did buy Mtg:AotP, so at least I can play and do our own custom thing here. But the publisher is still overlooking a massive issue with the separate fan bases and therefore missing out on profit.

[chas]

The reason to include Magic the Gathering: Arena of the Planeswalkers and give it a sub forum is for the future evolution of this site. For example, I suggested a while back that we change the name of one of our current subforums from Marvel Heroscape, since we don't play that anymore, hardly as such! But I suppose they left it that way because that's how people get into Super Scape (C3G and Otherwise), and how newcomers can most easily find it. People who stumble into Magic Arena may stumble into Heroscape as well, if we discuss it here in various ways.

Likewise, whatever your opinion of Magic Arena, it will be generating lots of talk and evolution, some if which will be related to porting one game into the other. Many of us are already discussing it both here and on bgg. A number of former Scapers (I can't understand why anyone would be in that category, but they are) have, as this game is being introduced, said they'll be "dusting off their long unplayed (!!!) Heroscape to use it when playing this new game. Lots of them. And new people will be looking to buy the terrain at least, possibly from some of us (not that I'll be selling mine).

So do we want to enjoy related discussions with the benefit from and to the benefit of our Scape Community? The difference between adding the other games Griznakh mentions above is that they are also discontinued. Magic Arena is new. Both games can benefit from tieing the two in. If MA is not continued, it will in effect become a custom part of Scape, as it will anyhow for me. If Magic Arena is continued, it will give a vital shot in the arm to many of us still Scaping. And that's why it should be here.

[Grishnakh]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

The question would be: Does the MTG product generate a lot of discussion? Does that discussion relate to Heroscape more than it does to the greater other gaming as a whole? My gut tells me this will generate Heroscape style discussions and I stand behind my gut... literally.

I just hope it generates the type of discussions that you want. From what I've seen of this thread so far it might have the ability to split this community, much like MarvelScape almost did back in the day.

Look, it's not my site. You guys do whatever you want here. I just think you're considering giving it too much special treatment just because Hasbro/Magic ripped off their own gaming system to create something entirely new.

At least that's what my gut tells me. Apparently we ate something different huh?

[Chachi]

I'd be happy if they put out official Scape cards for the new Magic figures. Just so we can place them in the heroscape universe. Just conversion kit style cards. Plenty of other games have done this. It would be easy to throw the new figures into Scape but bringing Scape into Mtg would be more work due to amount of figures.

[Grishnakh]

Originally Posted by chas

The reason to include Magic the Gathering: Arena of the Planeswalkers and give it a sub forum is for the future evolution of this site. For example, I suggested a while back that we change the name of one of our current subforums from Marvel Heroscape, since we don't play that anymore, hardly as such! But I suppose they left it that way because that's how people get into Super Scape (C3G and Otherwise), and how newcomers can most easily find it.

Likewise, whatever your opinion of Magic Arena, it will be generating lots of talk and evolution, some if which will be related to porting one game into the other. Many of us are already discussing it both here and on bgg. A number of former Scapers (I can't understand why anyone would be in that category, but they are) have, as this game is being introduced, said they'll be "dusting off their long unplayed (!!!) Heroscape to use it when playing this new game. Lots of them. And new people will be looking to buy the terrain at least, possibly from some of us (not that I'll be selling mine).

So do we want to enjoy related discussions with the benefit from and to the benefit of our Scape Community? The difference between adding the other games Griznakh mentions above is that they are also discontinued. Magic Arena is new. Both games can benefit from tieing the two in. If MA is not continued, it will in effect become a custom part of Scape, as it will anyhow for me. If it is continued, it will give a vital shot in the arm to many of us still Scaping. And that's why it should be here.

I'd like to be perfectly clear here. I think my point is getting confused.

MtG should have a presence here. Absolutely.

But, it should be included under the major forum named "Off-Topic" and then as a sub-forum under "Other Games", not a major forum like the following inclusive list:

Official Classic Heroscape
Custom Heroscape Creations
Marvel Legends Heroscape
Heroscape Community
Off-Topic

I think that if you create a major forum for this one game you start to dilute what this site is. Which in my opinion is a Heroscape site. Call it what you will, wish as much as you want, MA is not a Heroscape product and it belongs under other games.

Originally Posted by chas

The reason to include Magic the Gathering: Arena of the Planeswalkers and give it a sub forum is for the future evolution of this site.

You see, that's what scares me. I don't want this site to evolve into a Magic the Gathering: Arena of the Planeswalkers site.

[Grishnakh]

Originally Posted by Chachi

I'd be happy if they put out official Scape cards for the new Magic figures. Just so we can place them in the heroscape universe. Just conversion kit style cards. Plenty of other games have done this. It would be easy to throw the new figures into Scape but bringing Scape into Mtg would be more work due to amount of figures.

There's not a ice cube's chance in hell that will ever happen.

[Chachi]

Originally Posted by Grishnakh

There's not a ice cube's chance in hell that will ever happen.

I agree. But still I have some hope. lol. I don't know where the copyrights are with heroscape and if it's even possible. But I can dream. Like many others here, I see the crazy possibilities with this game but fear it will all be lost due to some suits making the call.