Cyprien Army - Accepting Suggestions and/or Feedback

[Gomolka]

If you have not noticed before, or have taken a look at my signature, Cyprien Esenwein is by far my favorite figure in Heroscape. Along with being one of the my very first Heroscape figures purchased, and being a powerful figure, he quickly earned a place in a majority of my armies.

First, let's take a look at his individual capabilities and stats:

Cyprien Esenwien ranks on spider_poison's Heroscape Power Rankings as an A unit: "Cyprien wears the daddy pants for the vampires, and for good reason. However, Q9 is still too hot to be cooled by Cyprien's touch. A"

Movement: He has an incredibly movement of 8 WITH his Stealth Flying ability. Therefore, he is incredibly mobile and keeps opponents even with a range of 9 capable of being targeted, and possibly killed in one turn.

Range: He has a melee range of 1, however, his true strength comes from his Chilling Touch ability.

Attack: For a Unique Hero, he has a below average attack of 3, which puts him at a disadvantage when attacking most other Heroes, and even against some squad figures.

Defense: As Jexik mentioned in the Reliable Dice thread, 4 Just seems to be the magic number. With an average defense of four, he seems to be difficult at times to inflict a wound upon.

Life: Cyprien has a very high life of 6 Life points. This makes him very hard to take down, and keeps him alive for a rather lengthy duration of the match.

Cost: At a cost of 150, or 195 with the investment in Sonya, Cyprien almost always gets his point value worth. With one lucky roll, he can take down a figure worth more than he is cost, and then move on to other figures. As Duinor mentioned in The Book of Cyprien Esenwein - "So for 150 points you get: Stealth Flight 8, Chilling Touch (just 11 or better with +2 if you play the wife - so pretty likely), Life Drain, 4 defense, 3 attack, and by the way 6 life. That's not a bargain...that's a downright steal for that cost. And heaven forbid you play an experienced scaper that plays tactically smart!"

Now on to his Special Abilities:

Chilling Touch: Cyprien's trademark ability, and what makes his opponents shiver (pun) at the mere thought of the dramatic outcome that may ensue the use of this ability. With Sonya's support, Cyprien has a 50% chance of inflicting at least one wound upon his opponent. Moving on, he has a 35% chance of inflicting at least 2 wounds, a 25% chance of inflicting at least 3 wounds, and a 15% chance of inflicting 6 wounds upon an opponent. These are no statistics to overlook or laugh about.

Pros: If you get some lucky rolling, there's no limit to how much damage Cyprien can deal in a game. Along with Life Drain, this allows Cyprien to stay alive for a very long time before he will be taken down.

Cons: Chilling touch does not effect Soulborgs and Destructible Objects, so this special ability is rendered useless against popular competitive army figures such as Q9, Glads/Blasts, and Deathreavers.

Life Drain: Chilling Touch + Life Drain combo allows Cyprien to stay alive and in the game even when he has several wound markers on him. With the possibility of removing two wound markers per turn, Cyprien can come back from being almost dead to completely healthy before.

Pros: Allows Cyprien to comeback from being nearly dead, to fully healthy if the dice are in your favor. This keeps him alive when the odds are against him, and this increases his overall value.

Stealth Flying: Stealth flying combined with his move of 8 allows him to be incredibly mobile and strategic. If he is caught in a sticky situation, he can simply fly away from it and into a safer position on the map without having to worry aobut a disengagement. Also, as I had mentioned earlier, almost every ranged (with the exception of DED or Laglor/glyph enhanced figures) figure who targets Cyprien is open to counter-attack the next turn. This keeps the opponent very cautious of how he wants to approach Cyprien.

Pros: Incredibly mobility, ability to get out of unfavorable situations, ables him to get to the weak figure or vulnerable squad figures.

Now it's time to build an army around him.

Here are a few armies that I have come up with, playtested, and need feedback and suggestions on:

Cyprien Esenwein - 150
Sonya Esenwein - 195
Nilfheim - 380
Stingers x2 - 500

In my opinion, this army almost has it all. There are some heavy hitting squad killers, great mobility from Cyprien, and considerably good cleanup units. In the case that you face an army consisting of Q9 or other soulborgs, Nilfheim and Kaemon/Stingers can fill in the role of taking down those units while Cyprien focuses on using Chilling Touch on the non-soulborg units.

The decision of Stingers x2 over Kaemon Awa makes sense in many different directions. Whether it's Glyph grabbing, having more units, or getting more out of a turn, the stingers seem to have the upper hand in all of these categories.

Now for my next army, which is still under heavy construction. I still have to play around with it more, and fix out the little kinks, but this is how it looks:

Cyprien Esenwein - 150
Sonya Esenwein - 195
Swog Riders x3 - 270
Arrow Gruts x3 - 390
Krug - 510

This army would be perfect in the rare case of a 510 point limit tournament, but, of course, the limit is usually 500 points. In the case of a 550 point army, you could add in another squad of Arrow gruts. In the case of a 500 point limit, it would look more like this.

Cyprien Esenwein - 150
Sonya Esenwein - 195
Swog Riders x4 - 295
Arrow Gruts x2 - 375
Krug - 495

As I said, I'm still working on a stronger secondary Cyprien Army, however the 510 point army provides a good balance of squad and hero killers, bonding, and bypassing deathreavers. Cyprien would keep the opponent hesitant about making advancing moves in order to stay out of range of Cyprien's incredibly mobility. Meanwhile, the Swogs + Arrow Gruts can advance and work on taking out other squad units and even heroes if you can get enough Swogs to support your Arrow Gruts. Other than Cyprien, this army has a few mobility issues, since the Arrow Gruts will need multiple Swog Riders to keep up with them to be effective.

Well, that is about it. As the title implies, I am open to all suggestions and feedback about these armies. I hope someone enjoys trying either of these armies out and experiencing how they play out.

Thanks for reading~

[DarkBladeCB]

1st Army: I think in this situation I prefer the Stingers. They're a bit more bread and butter-y. Kaemon is pretty awesome, but I think the three attacks and the ability of the Stingers to stand on glyphs (as overqualified as they are for such a task, it's something that your army doesn't really have), as well as just the sheer extra numbers in an army with only a couple figures could come in handy in certain situations.

2nd: Interesting. Cyprien being backed up by Krug and the Arrows doesn't seem to be a bad play at all. My one suggestion is that, why don't you throw in another Swog Rider instead of having Marcu and Isamu? Yes, you lose five points, but people have gotten a lost better these days at playing against Krug/Arrows and know to target the support units first. Having an extra Swog, just in case, can never really hurt and you can make the Arrows even more powerful. Fun times, no?

[Jexik]

It's a good read. One thing I might mention is that like most units, he goes great with Deathreavers. For really any army that primarily uses Uniques to attack, Deathreavers lower a lot of the risk and can help choke enemy common squads. Similar to your first army, I once played this:

Nilfheim 185
Cyprien 335
Sonya 380
3x Deathreavers 500
Marro Warriors 550

I went 4-1, but I'm still somewhat reluctant to do it again in a tournament; Nilfheim + Cyprien is a lot of points wrapped up in just a couple figures. When it works, it's just brutal though. Like DarkBladeCB, I'd agree that 2x Stingers out of your two suggestions is better, just because I'd want to have more than 4 figures out there.

Also, ever since Sashiel mentioned it awhile ago, I've really liked the idea of putting him together with Marro Stingers and/or rats.

3x Marro Stingers 180
3x Deathreavers 300
Cyprien Esenwein 450
Sonya 495

(This might be a bit defensive, but can be adjusted depending on the point total to have more Stingers, or just drop all three squads for 2x Stingers.)

[rym]

I like the first army better (with the Stingers). I, too, like playing Cyprien, and like Jexik mentioned, the rats are good with Cyprien. However, an army I've used and had success with is:

Cyprien
Sonya
Shades x2
Krav (or really any 100 point unit you want)

Instead of rats, I've used the Shades. It's more thematic and they have the same defense. They can grab and hold glyphs and have a better attack than the rats as well. Plus, the scare factor they bring, and if you do Soul Devour, you're army is that much stronger.

Just my opinion.

[Messenger]

Soulborgs do pose difficulties to Cyprien/Sonya, and your analysis of the (current) metagame is accurate. You will face an occasional Glad/Blast, lots of rats, and definitely Major Q9. The concern for the vampire is, "How to deal with this weakness, while still remaining competitive against other non-soulborg armies?" My suggestion is to complement Cyprien and Sonya with five squads of Marro Stingers. Your point total is 495, you'll have seventeen figures. Here is the rationale.

Versus Soulborgs:
Typical Glad/Blast armies consist of some combination of these two units, with a support hero as backup. The front line Gladiatrons should be shot to prevent their Melee defense boost. Even if the Glads engage your front line, the other twelve stingers should be able to finish the job.

Deathreavers are best taken care of with Special Attacks, but they'll still die the normal way too. Nilfheim's special attack is one of the best in the game, but with 150 (195 w/Sonya) points already wrapped up in one figure, devoting 185 to another single figure increases the risk of losing a majority of your army to a few 'bad' rolls. For the same points you get nine Stingers to help diversify your risk.

Major Q9. Spider Poison asks in his Power Rankings thread "Can this take out Q9?” Well, since Cyprien can't, then it's up to your fifteen Stingers to handle the job. I sometimes wonder if Q9 was the impetus for the design of the Marro Stingers, because their Stinger Drain power makes them nearly ideal for taking down the big fella.

Versus Non-Soulborg armies:
The Stingers are a ranged (albeit short), common squad with all the advantages that come with those attributes. As a squad, they get three attacks per activation, and their range should ensure they always have targets. In the event of a failed defense roll excess skulls do not diminish their life as they only have one. Finally, the effectiveness of their order marker placement is not diminished if one or more (or twelve) dies.

As for order marker decision making, essentially there are only two choices in this build, Stingers or Cyprien.

Units to watch out for: Spiders. I know, they haven't been released yet. Assuming their power hasn't been changed they can take away order markers, so beware of clumping them on one card. Also, the Bug they bond with can do to Cyprien what he can do to it...drain (or in its case, poison) your life away.

[rym]

Messenger, nicely thought out and well-read information for using the Stingers. Thanks for some interesting points I hadn't thought of before. Alas I only have four squads and now need to buy another SotM.

[Gomolka]

Thanks for the advice, Messenger. However, I am not a huge fan of using masses of a certain popular squad (Stingers, Reavers, 4th Mass). I like a little more diversity an uniqueness within my army.

Sure, I could use that many stingers, but I could also use that many stingers with any other main unit, and it wouldn't be a whole lot different than with Cyprien or not. I see where you are coming from, in that the Stingers provide as an excellent balance in the case that you go against a Soulborg army, however I just can't see myself having as much fun with that many squads of Stingers rather than Nilfhiem, or a different combination of units. I will try out using 5 sets of stingers, and I will see how much success I have, or how much I enjoy using that army.

I appreciate your input, and value your opinion, but I'm not sure if the army you suggested was exactly what I was looking for. As I said, I am willing to try it out and see how I like it, and I will most likely be using that army during my next few casual games with friends.

[killercactus]

I really like what Messenger said up there, and I like the army he suggests. It's very powerful against a lot of different threats. The only thing it really lacks is a special attack (as he pointed out).

And Gomolka, you like more diversity in your armies, eh? I will try then to solve both of these problems:

Cyprien - 150
Sonya - 45
Marro Stingers x3 - 180
Kaemon Awa - 120

Total = 500

Kaemon substitutes in for two Stinger squads, giving the army a little more diversity, a decent Special Attack and one of the best cleanup figures in the game. Three squads of Stingers should at least be a match for Q9, and hopefully Kaemon can take out what the Stingers leave behind (if anything).

[drumtooth]

I personally enjoy this 500 point themed army.
Cyprien 150
Sonya 45
Ornak 100
Grimnak 120
Blade Gruts x2 80

Ornak allows you to move Cyprien and Grimnak on the same turn, then the bonding orcs can do their thing.

[gamjuven]

I had almost your exact 1st army for a Western PA tournament. I think I had one less swog rider since it was a 500 pts game. I won the tournament. Cyprien did amazing things for me. I love the guy. He's so much fun to play. I can't wait till they make more units from his fluff.

[rym]

Originally Posted by creepybluemonkey

Cyprien 150pts (150 total)
Sonya 45pts (195 total)
Drake SOTM 170pts (365 total)
Marro Stingers X2 120pts (485 total)
Isamu 10pts (495 total)

I like this team a lot. Cyprien and Sonya work together well of course, the Stingers provide some cheap ranged support, Isamu's just there to fill space, and SOTM Drake can put the hurt on high defense figures with his spider-swing and six attack dice, plus he can bring some range into play when needed to pick off approaching swarms. The whole team is pretty mobile too.

That's not a bad army with Drake in there. I'll have to give that a try.

[spider_poison]

How did I not notice this thread earlier? It's awesome. Anyway, I don't have many good ideas about Cyprien, but one thing (in my mind) is for certain: if you're using Cyprien, it's a good idea to have something else that can kill Q9 and soulborgs in general. I like your ideas of having Krug, Nilfheim, and Stingers in your armies to help deal with Cyprien's shortcomings.