Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Marvel Legends HeroScape > Comic Hero Custom Creations > C3G SuperScape > C3G Legacy > C3G Legacy Library
C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #889  
Old January 9th, 2015, 05:37 PM
A3n's Avatar
A3n A3n is offline
"Let's Nut this Unit Out!"
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Australia - Queensland - Nth Rockhampton
Posts: 20,238
Images: 77
A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth A3n is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of Thor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellfire View Post
However, iirc, in the case of Wrecker, he cannot be engaged when using the ability ... I can't think of a situation where he could be affected (maybe I'm remembering wrong or not thinking this through properly...high probability). But now I'll probably go back and obsessively read the card to make sure I'm remembering correctly. :rolls eyes:
You are remembering correctly I forgot that part myself. Not needed there either.
Reply With Quote
  #890  
Old January 9th, 2015, 05:41 PM
Hellfire's Avatar
Hellfire Hellfire is offline
Promotable Material
 
Join Date: April 3, 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 2,567
Images: 128
Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of Thor

Quote:
Originally Posted by A3n View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellfire View Post
However, iirc, in the case of Wrecker, he cannot be engaged when using the ability ... I can't think of a situation where he could be affected (maybe I'm remembering wrong or not thinking this through properly...high probability). But now I'll probably go back and obsessively read the card to make sure I'm remembering correctly. :rolls eyes:
You are remembering correctly I forgot that part myself. Not needed there either.
Thanks! I've been reading the card for the last five minutes and about to start drawing little diagrams to figure it out.

EDIT: Arkham here I come!
Reply With Quote
  #891  
Old January 9th, 2015, 05:42 PM
quozl's Avatar
quozl quozl is offline
Silly quozl, dinosaurs are for orcs!
 
Join Date: January 11, 2008
Location: USA - WA - Vancouver
Posts: 26,729
Images: 143
Blog Entries: 3
quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer quozl is a wielder of the Ban Hammer
Re: The Book of Thor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Would you mind putting all of these in one thread so we can easily go through them and make updates?
Happy to. Would you like me to start some kind of "Just_a_Bill's suggested edits" thread, then, and just keep dumping all my notes into that, instead of cluttering up each Book?

And if so, also go gather up the other notes I've already spread around to other Books?

Whatever is easiest for you all.
Yes, please (to all of that)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Van Ness View Post
I highly recommend C3V and C3G customs!
Reply With Quote
  #892  
Old January 9th, 2015, 05:53 PM
Hahma's Avatar
Hahma Hahma is offline
Prickly Cactus
 
Join Date: June 26, 2006
Location: IN - Lowell
Posts: 24,056
Images: 3
Blog Entries: 3
Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of Thor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellfire View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by A3n View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellfire View Post
However, iirc, in the case of Wrecker, he cannot be engaged when using the ability ... I can't think of a situation where he could be affected (maybe I'm remembering wrong or not thinking this through properly...high probability). But now I'll probably go back and obsessively read the card to make sure I'm remembering correctly. :rolls eyes:
You are remembering correctly I forgot that part myself. Not needed there either.
Thanks! I've been reading the card for the last five minutes and about to start drawing little diagrams to figure it out.

EDIT: Arkham here I come!

I commented in the Wrecker thread about this. Correct, he can't use it if he is engaged, but "technically", he could use it on a friendly figure that he was adjacent to, and thus himself be affected as well. I mean sure it would put him and his teammate at risk of demo damage, but it would allow them to be placed up to 2 spaces away, and since it doesn't have a height restriction, they could be placed on great height by using this in a cheesy fashion. This use wasn't the intent at all and really meant to bring enemy figures on height down to Wrecker's level, or even if they are at the same level, to bounce them somewhere else and maybe a demo wound.

So the change that I would have for Wrecker is to have him choose an opponent's figure up to 2 spaces away. This way he couldn't be affected because he couldn't be engaged to an opponent's figure that could be chosen, and he wouldn't be able to chose an adjacent friendly figure that would allow him to be affected.

Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you
...Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man

TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES


3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon
Reply With Quote
  #893  
Old January 9th, 2015, 05:55 PM
Hellfire's Avatar
Hellfire Hellfire is offline
Promotable Material
 
Join Date: April 3, 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 2,567
Images: 128
Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of Thor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellfire View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by A3n View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellfire View Post
However, iirc, in the case of Wrecker, he cannot be engaged when using the ability ... I can't think of a situation where he could be affected (maybe I'm remembering wrong or not thinking this through properly...high probability). But now I'll probably go back and obsessively read the card to make sure I'm remembering correctly. :rolls eyes:
You are remembering correctly I forgot that part myself. Not needed there either.
Thanks! I've been reading the card for the last five minutes and about to start drawing little diagrams to figure it out.

EDIT: Arkham here I come!

I commented in the Wrecker thread about this. Correct, he can't use it if he is engaged, but "technically", he could use it on a friendly figure that he was adjacent to, and thus himself be affected as well. I mean sure it would put him and his teammate at risk of demo damage, but it would allow them to be placed up to 2 spaces away, and since it doesn't have a height restriction, they could be placed on great height by using this in a cheesy fashion. This use wasn't the intent at all and really meant to bring enemy figures on height down to Wrecker's level, or even if they are at the same level, to bounce them somewhere else and maybe a demo wound.

So the change that I would have for Wrecker is to have him choose an opponent's figure up to 2 spaces away. This way he couldn't be affected because he couldn't be engaged to an opponent's figure that could be chosen, and he wouldn't be able to chose an adjacent friendly figure that would allow him to be affected.
Ha, bi-lateral thread !
Reply With Quote
  #894  
Old January 9th, 2015, 08:06 PM
GreyOwl's Avatar
GreyOwl GreyOwl is offline
Caretaker of the Custom Realm
 
Join Date: May 19, 2007
Location: TX - Austin
Posts: 11,365
GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of Thor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill View Post
But according to the rule, all figures that could potentially affect themselves are supposed to have a statement as to whether their particular design does or does not allow it. Why would this figure be an exception?
I think the confusion is that, at least based on what I was saying, the power doesn't always need to specify either way. Only when it breaks the general rule. Otherwise, it is assumed that the general rule applies.
Reply With Quote
  #895  
Old January 9th, 2015, 08:50 PM
Just_a_Bill's Avatar
Just_a_Bill Just_a_Bill is offline
 
Join Date: December 31, 2007
Location: USA - OR - Salem(ish)
Posts: 1,705
Images: 59
Blog Entries: 7
Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death!
Re: The Book of Thor

Quote:
Originally Posted by A3n View Post
wording to say that your figure is also affected is not required that's implied if you are silly enough to target your own figure.
Silly is in the eye of the beholder. Just because we can’t think of a good reason right now for a player to do a particular thing isn’t a very compelling reason to deliberately make game text inconsistent with all the other units that work in a similar way.

But it’s not that difficult to imagine a scenario where a player would want to do this. Suppose Comedian is represented by Drake below (I’ve certainly found myself hemmed in like this plenty of times) and wants to flame all three enemies. Sure, he’s risking damage to himself, but depending upon the game state it’s probably worth it.



Seems like a valid, non-silly scenario to me. So why not have the game text say what the intent is, have it be consistent with other units, and follow the rule that has apparently been developed for just this kind of situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Yes, please (to all of that)!
Will do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
Wrecker ... could use it on a friendly figure that he was adjacent to, and thus himself be affected as well.
Exactly. (I didn’t choose these examples capriciously.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
So the change that I would have for Wrecker is to have him choose an opponent's figure up to 2 spaces away. This way he couldn't be affected because he couldn't be engaged to an opponent's figure that could be chosen, and he wouldn't be able to chose an adjacent friendly figure that would allow him to be affected.
That works, too. One way or the other, the card should answer the question. (I would expect that to be a core design principle.)


Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
Clipper423, Oh Freek, Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112 & more on my trade list

Last edited by Just_a_Bill; November 22nd, 2018 at 08:48 AM. Reason: fixing obsolete image link
Reply With Quote
  #896  
Old January 9th, 2015, 08:52 PM
Just_a_Bill's Avatar
Just_a_Bill Just_a_Bill is offline
 
Join Date: December 31, 2007
Location: USA - OR - Salem(ish)
Posts: 1,705
Images: 59
Blog Entries: 7
Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death!
Re: The Book of Thor

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyOwl View Post
I think the confusion is that, at least based on what I was saying, the power doesn't always need to specify either way. Only when it breaks the general rule. Otherwise, it is assumed that the general rule applies.
Actually, you wrote this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyOwl
Adjacency to a Targeted Figure - a figure itself *can* be adjacent to the targeted figure, so powers that affect figures adjacent to the targeted figure *do* need to specify whether the figure itself is affected or not.

Within X Spaces of a Targeted Figure - a figure itself *can* be "within X spaces of a targeted figure", so powers that affect figures within X spaces of the targeted figure *do* need to specify whether the figure itself is affected or not.
Extending this to the other cases you didn't include in your original message (which I did in my reply, in abbreviated form) results in this:
In a Straight Line from a Targeted Figure - a figure itself *can* be "in a straight line from" the targeted figure, so powers that affect figures in a straight line from the targeted figure *do* need to specify whether the figure itself is affected or not.
Comedian is, of course, in that situation.

The only way I can see to make Comedian an exception is if you want to create yet another category of effects that is parallel to the ones you already listed but for some reason has a different rule. I'm not sure what the purpose for that would be, other than to have an excuse to make the texts inconsistent?

Honestly I don't understand the resistance to just following the rule that was (apparently) already created. It's not my rule; heck, I didn't even know about it until today! I'm just saying that since a convention does exist, it should be followed.


Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
Clipper423, Oh Freek, Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112 & more on my trade list
Reply With Quote
  #897  
Old January 9th, 2015, 09:20 PM
GreyOwl's Avatar
GreyOwl GreyOwl is offline
Caretaker of the Custom Realm
 
Join Date: May 19, 2007
Location: TX - Austin
Posts: 11,365
GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun GreyOwl is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of Thor

Yeah, you're right. I should've written that to say it only needs to specify if it violates the general rule. While I don't think it would necessarily hurt to be explicit all the times, card space for powers is usually at a premium.
Reply With Quote
  #898  
Old January 9th, 2015, 09:31 PM
Hellfire's Avatar
Hellfire Hellfire is offline
Promotable Material
 
Join Date: April 3, 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 2,567
Images: 128
Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun Hellfire is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of Thor

Yeah, Idt Greyowl was trying to state an official rule or C3G standard. I think he was just trying to help clarify.

In regard to Comedian, as it stands right now, I'd let him flame his enemies and himself as there is nothing on the card to state otherwise. To add a line on the card stating that Comedian is affected by his flamethrower attack seems redundant, imo.

Imo, Storm is another matter. Whether or not a change is needed is dependent upon what the intent is. Thematically, it wouldn't bother me either way. As it stands now, I'd allow Storm to be affected ... plus, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Griffin purposely designed the power to be able to do precisely that.

Last edited by Hellfire; January 9th, 2015 at 09:33 PM. Reason: Disjointed Edit; Archaic irrelevancy.
Reply With Quote
  #899  
Old January 9th, 2015, 09:39 PM
Just_a_Bill's Avatar
Just_a_Bill Just_a_Bill is offline
 
Join Date: December 31, 2007
Location: USA - OR - Salem(ish)
Posts: 1,705
Images: 59
Blog Entries: 7
Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death! Just_a_Bill is hot lava death!
Re: The Book of Thor

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyOwl View Post
Yeah, you're right. I should've written that to say it only needs to specify if it violates the general rule.
So then, the general rule is that since a unit's power can potentially affect that unit as long as it is not trying to be adjacent to, within X LOS/clear sight/normal spaces of, or in a straight line with itself, this is considered the default. Thus, when the design intent is to allow it, no statement is required.

A3n, I think now this must be why you have been saying "no change" on Comedian. You're saying that yes, he can continue to be allowed to flame himself, and as this is the default his text is already complete. Seems fine to me.

The reason why we had been on such different pages is that I was working from the understanding that it HAD to be specified either way, based on what others had suggested/agreed with earlier. I was not arguing that Comedian should be exempt; I just thought he needed an explicit statement one way or the other since he fit the template.

So, long story short, I think this is all converging now. We just had a misunderstanding about the nature of default behavior.


Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
Clipper423, Oh Freek, Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112 & more on my trade list
Reply With Quote
  #900  
Old January 9th, 2015, 09:39 PM
Hahma's Avatar
Hahma Hahma is offline
Prickly Cactus
 
Join Date: June 26, 2006
Location: IN - Lowell
Posts: 24,056
Images: 3
Blog Entries: 3
Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth Hahma is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of Thor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by A3n View Post
wording to say that your figure is also affected is not required that's implied if you are silly enough to target your own figure.
Silly is in the eye of the beholder. Just because we can’t think of a good reason right now for a player to do a particular thing isn’t a very compelling reason to deliberately make game text inconsistent with all the other units that work in a similar way.

But it’s not that difficult to imagine a scenario where a player would want to do this. Suppose Comedian is represented by Drake below (I’ve certainly found myself hemmed in like this plenty of times) and wants to flame all three enemies. Sure, he’s risking damage to himself, but depending upon the game state it’s probably worth it.



Seems like a valid, non-silly scenario to me. So why not have the game text say what the intent is, have it be consistent with other units, and follow the rule that has apparently been developed for just this kind of situation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Yes, please (to all of that)!
Will do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
Wrecker ... could use it on a friendly figure that he was adjacent to, and thus himself be affected as well.
Exactly. (I didn’t choose these examples capriciously.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
So the change that I would have for Wrecker is to have him choose an opponent's figure up to 2 spaces away. This way he couldn't be affected because he couldn't be engaged to an opponent's figure that could be chosen, and he wouldn't be able to chose an adjacent friendly figure that would allow him to be affected.
That works, too. One way or the other, the card should answer the question. (I would expect that to be a core design principle.)
Comedian's Flamethrower power was based off of Heatwave's power. But it was all fine with Heatwave because he is Lava Resistant and is safe from the flames based on the line saying Lava Resistant figure's aren't affected by the Flamethrower. So that works in that case without an issue. Were this brought up in Comedian's thread with the example you gave JaB, I would suggest a ruling that he would be affected by the Flamethrower. There's nothing that says he isn't and this isn't a case of him being within clear sight of himself or within X spaces of himself. This is a straight line from the targeted figure thing, so it should work backward toward and through him.

I think with all of these examples being thrown out in this thread, it becomes difficult to keep certain things straight and thus perhaps there are some inconsistent answers.

Regarding Wrecker: Not a mind reader as to why he was mentioned. So it was eventually figured out.

As to core design principles and whatnot. Keep in mind that those of us that have worked 100's or 1,000's of hours on this project since it's inception, are not professional designers and working full time at it. We've worked late into the night or early in the morning before work to do this. We also didn't do like 6 designs a year where we can spend billions of hours looking at it from every which way but loose. If we've been guilty of anything, it's been that we are too close to the design and know the intent and perhaps don't see it in another light. The designs are done collectively and so while we can catch things here and there with different sets of eyes, some things may be missed. There are also things like theme, bonding, power level, appropriate costs and testing to consider. So if you count the number of designs in the Books of Index, there are quite a few. Many, if not most of them are more complex than Classic units are.

I realize that you are trying to help JaB and are coming up with some great suggestions and it's appreciated. But I just wanted to point out that we aren't/weren't perfect. We did our best and put a lot of our valuable time into this project. We didn't take it lightly, but are not perfect.

Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you
...Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man

TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES


3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Marvel Legends HeroScape > Comic Hero Custom Creations > C3G SuperScape > C3G Legacy > C3G Legacy Library
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Book of Flash (Barry Allen) Spidey'tilIDie C3G Legacy Library 569 June 18th, 2022 11:37 PM
The Book of Plastic Man Matt Helm C3G Legacy Library 316 June 15th, 2011 05:44 PM
Need thor! the mighty Thor Marvel Discussion 5 August 19th, 2007 09:59 PM
Thor in Valhalla Levi Marvel Discussion 5 August 5th, 2007 11:02 AM
Thor = Hulk ? Helznicht Marvel Discussion 1 August 4th, 2007 11:04 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:35 AM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.