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  #361  
Old February 15th, 2021, 05:22 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 2/11/21: Nure Onna]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinderella View Post
I really like how simple and effective Nura Onna is, and for 20 points you can't go wrong with her in almost any army. Even on her own she has the potential to be a decent assassin, and like you said the 7 move is handy for shapeshifting. I can see Nure Onna actually being a better pick than Marcu sometimes if Wannock is not on the board.

Really liking how the Yokai faction is growing!
Thanks for the feedback! One of my desires for Nure Onna is definitely to provide another viable filler unit for 20 points--hopefully around the level of Bol to Isamu rather than Otonashi. I've been pushing to keep her cost as low as possible as a result.

It is worth noting that outside of Wannok, Marcu's 4A with Flying and Life Drain is generally going to get more mileage than Nure Onna's conditional 3A + defense debuff, and he's a lot more mobile over uneven terrain. Still, he does have that pesky 20% chance to backstab you when using him, which pigeonholes him into more of an endgame unit as a result (where the friendly damage that he can cause is at least minimal). He's still an absurd Wannok sponge, but without that edge, the choice between the two becomes a little more interesting and concerning.

It's worth testing her out more extensively as a random filler for sure, since in the right situation or map (and with a little bit of luck on Eternal Hatred rolls), I do agree that she's a better pick for 20 points.
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  #362  
Old February 15th, 2021, 06:51 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 2/11/21: Nure Onna]

This is a good 20 point unit, in the grander scheme it is not a Marcu replacement but an option that could situationally be better or at least be a lot more fun to play with than mr "please lava dunk me."

I like how paralyzing trap plays, this requires some forethought from both opponents on when this will come up. The extra die on water is a fine addition to slither, I don't think I have any problems with this unit. I expect it to see a lot of use offensively and then die on the crackback rather hard as long as your opponent is ready for it. Though with the variety of yokai at your disposal this may turn into a complicated game of intentions and "what do I really want to do here?"

I like what this one is bringing to the faction. Devourer seems like a fitting item for the left block too.
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  #363  
Old February 18th, 2021, 03:12 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 2/11/21: Nure Onna]

I love what you've done with the Mokumokuren - to me, good, weird designs are welcome. It's nice that sixteen years after the launch of HeroScape we still get such creative designs! The spot swapping with other constructs is a nice touch.
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  #364  
Old February 19th, 2021, 01:34 AM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 2/11/21: Nure Onna]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
This is a good 20 point unit, in the grander scheme it is not a Marcu replacement but an option that could situationally be better or at least be a lot more fun to play with than mr "please lava dunk me."

I like how paralyzing trap plays, this requires some forethought from both opponents on when this will come up. The extra die on water is a fine addition to slither, I don't think I have any problems with this unit. I expect it to see a lot of use offensively and then die on the crackback rather hard as long as your opponent is ready for it. Though with the variety of yokai at your disposal this may turn into a complicated game of intentions and "what do I really want to do here?"

I like what this one is bringing to the faction. Devourer seems like a fitting item for the left block too.
Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad to hear that she's landing well at 20 points.

I was originally pushing to keep Life Drain as well, but Captain Stupendous had some very good points about that essentially pigeon-holing her into a "Marcu, but different" sort of role. Without it, she definitely feels more unique and refreshingly simple. She does die quickly with her stats, but she provides excellent bang for her buck while she lasts.

As you noted, the Yokai are quickly becoming fairly complex as a whole--it's really important to be familiar with each figure and think through their best uses to really let them shine. They're a bit similar to the Elven Wizards in that regard (I rarely see players remember every Elf's shtick in the first game), but at a higher degree overall since they don't have the luxury of an easy Ulginesh to tie them together. I think that Nure Onna is a small enough package that she doesn't tip over the scales to be unreasonably complex, thankfully.

Also, I'm glad that you like Devourer. I'm a bit torn on her class now myself, since originally it was a nod to the Dumutef Guards' Attack Enhancement with her many attacks as her "side-synergy," but with the new draft, the Devourer class is mostly for theme. It still works, and if stronger Devourer synergy ever becomes a thing, then it could be more interesting as well, of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarant View Post
I love what you've done with the Mokumokuren - to me, good, weird designs are welcome. It's nice that sixteen years after the launch of HeroScape we still get such creative designs! The spot swapping with other constructs is a nice touch.
That's awesome to hear! I do really like Mokumokuren overall, and it's fantastic to have an actual "living object Yokai" given their many legends.

I actually wasn't a big fan of swapping with Constructs for thematic reasons, but Capt. S convinced me that it's a necessary evil to make Mokumokuren playable outside of pure Yokai builds, and a living door with Chomp is too good to pass on.
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  #365  
Old February 19th, 2021, 03:09 AM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 2/11/21: Nure Onna]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I actually wasn't a big fan of swapping with Constructs for thematic reasons, but Capt. S convinced me that it's a necessary evil to make Mokumokuren playable outside of pure Yokai builds, and a living door with Chomp is too good to pass on.
I do think it's the right call--it still keeps the design narrow, but a tad less insular.

Current projects:
My customs thread
Arena of the Valkyrie Pod 2 Participant
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  #366  
Old February 28th, 2021, 12:38 AM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 2/11/21: Nure Onna]

I don't have a lot to add other than a comment about how I've ordered many of these Yokai units to add to the flameslayer table.

My customs.
NE Ohio Tourney - TBA
SW Ohio Tourney - NHSD 550 points
AotV - Colliding the minis of AotP with the world of HS.

Last edited by flameslayer93; February 28th, 2021 at 12:39 AM. Reason: And Vishania.
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  #367  
Old March 10th, 2021, 06:51 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 3/10/20: Aquilla Raptorian]

Thanks for the kind words, @flameslayer93 ! That's one of my absolute favorite things to hear as a customs creator. I'm really happy with how the Yokai in particular are turning out, and every game with them so far has been a blast. I hope that if you get them to the table, they bring you similar enjoyment.

I do have some changes and revisions incubating for the most recent Yokai, but while I test them more, here's a quick detour for an old custom of mine that I hadn't gotten around to posting yet:

- - - - - - -

RAHNIK PROTECTOR
Wild Raptorian


Valkrill's Vengeance - Heroes of the White Storm (3/4)



The figure used is Beatific One #40 from the Pathfinder: Legends of Golarion set.

CHARACTER BIO:
Spoiler Alert!

CARD TEXT:
Spoiler Alert!

DESIGN NOTES:
Spoiler Alert!


-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received
  • BEAKFACE SNEAKS : FLOCKING
    As a Raptorian, the Rahnik Protector can move via the Beakface Sneaks' FLOCKING special power.

  • CLAWFOOT INTERCEPTOR : CLAW GRAB
    As a medium Raptorian figure, the Rahnik Protector may be moved by a Clawfoot Interceptor's CLAW GRAB.
Synergy Benefits Offered
  • N/A
As always, any comments or feedback are appreciated.
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  #368  
Old March 10th, 2021, 07:40 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 3/10/21: Aquilla Raptorian]

Yes! More raptorians! Definitely on board with this and I think this guy should be fun to play in a standard flocking build. He will be fragile to range but that seems to be a hallmark of the current raptorians so I'm not bothered by that.

Ramming Spear will be a lot of fun, this reminds me of Arthur of Sherwood but we have to stay in danger once we get there.
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  #369  
Old March 11th, 2021, 12:10 AM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 3/10/21: Aquilla Raptorian]

Thanks for the feedback! Having another unit like the Clawfoot Interceptor that really rewards Flocking and opens up some new strategies was my main goal here, so I'm glad that that comes across well. He's fragile for sure, but with a bit of luck, he actually has a pretty high ceiling for damage, too.
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  #370  
Old March 13th, 2021, 11:31 AM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 3/10/21: Aquilla Raptorian]

Hey @Astroking112 , you've got some really neat stuff going on here!

Your Yokai faction has some cool stuff going on. They're reminiscent of Scytale's Corsairs, to me at least; the interactions with moving around revealed order markers is a super thing. Abe no Seimei is probably my favorite because you've got those creative leader powers on that card; getting the balance right on a passive commander that allows your army to do some tricksy, flexible things must be pretty tough. I do find it a bit unfortunate that there isn't really any reason to put an order marker on Seimei - I think that he might be too passive, to a fault. Figuring out a use for Seimei that would require activating him sometimes will add even more complexity to the faction, but I think it is a flaw that you may need to eventually address, although I've got no suggestions on how you might do that.

I love what is going on with Nure Onna and Kincho, they look like great low-cost additions to an army. The Mokumokuren is awesome too, Chomp and immunity to most ranged attacks warrants a high price tag for a common hero. They look like they'd be an absolute blast to learn how to play.

The Rahnik Protector is pretty cool too, I'm liking the interactions with Ramming Spear and Flocking/Flutter. It might be cool if Ramming Spear allowed you to push figures back a space too!

The beatings will continue until morale improves!

Maklar the Silver Prince's Customs
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  #371  
Old March 17th, 2021, 01:26 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 3/10/21: Aquilla Raptorian]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maklar the Silver Prince View Post
Hey @Astroking112 , you've got some really neat stuff going on here!

Your Yokai faction has some cool stuff going on. They're reminiscent of Scytale's Corsairs, to me at least; the interactions with moving around revealed order markers is a super thing. Abe no Seimei is probably my favorite because you've got those creative leader powers on that card; getting the balance right on a passive commander that allows your army to do some tricksy, flexible things must be pretty tough. I do find it a bit unfortunate that there isn't really any reason to put an order marker on Seimei - I think that he might be too passive, to a fault. Figuring out a use for Seimei that would require activating him sometimes will add even more complexity to the faction, but I think it is a flaw that you may need to eventually address, although I've got no suggestions on how you might do that.
Thanks for the feedback!

Seimei is definitely intended to be more of a passive commander given his place as an imperial advisor, but one of the things that emerged in testing was that he surprisingly is worth a turn every so often. Being the only ranged Yokai means that he can bypass pesky powers like Flutter or Defensive Agility, and his decent durability means that he can absorb attacks to distract your opponent from critical targets like Ibaraki-doji or the Kirin. Given that he benefits from Shapeshift himself, he can often get ranged attacks from height, too, so long as you don't save him for when you have no Yokai left.

That said, I do plan to make a Unique Yokai for each general as suitable sculpts emerge, and Vydar's Yokai will very likely be ranged to emphasize his gameplay themes, which means that Seimei's ranged attack will eventually have an alternative. Seimei's relative price and mediocre offense means that you rarely want him to be your last figure in clean-up over a more useful Yokai, though, which means that shifting him into danger to absorb some attacks is sometimes the right call. It can also still serve as a substitute when you can't afford another ranged Yokai, given that they're often tight on points already.

I wouldn't be opposed to giving him a more active role if he fails the SoV process, but I similarly struggle to think of elegant ways to do that. He's already a full card in terms of powers, I think, and putting a range requirement on one of the powers messes with the balance of the faction considerably (given that each Yokai has other armies that they work in, Seimei's very strong synergies for them is a key reason why the Yokai faction can work together). 4 attack is another possibility to boost his offensive power, but I'm a little reserved about baking a decent ranged attack into every Yokai build given that each Yokai is meant to be a strong-but-limited tool in a big toolbox. It's a tough thing to change either way for sure.

Quote:
I love what is going on with Nure Onna and Kincho, they look like great low-cost additions to an army. The Mokumokuren is awesome too, Chomp and immunity to most ranged attacks warrants a high price tag for a common hero. They look like they'd be an absolute blast to learn how to play.
I'm glad that you like those three Yokai! I think that they're some of the most unique and fun heroes in the faction. Kincho is a really fun addition to Seimei as a way of developing one more Yokai position per round, and his ability to tie up key figures to protect your Yokai is also invaluable. Similar to Seimei, I've found that knowing when to put an OM on him is vital to playing the Yokai, as if your opponent isn't expecting the Tanuki to breeze through their screen, they could quickly find an angry Kirin in their starting zone.

Nure Onna is a really fun figure at 20 points. The Yokai really want to have as many figures and options on the board as possible for Shapeshift, so she's a great value even when she dies quickly. She also combos very well with Seimei if he becomes engaged, since he can swap with her and then shoot at the defense-penalized target.

I've only tested out Mokumokuren a little bit so far, but having Chomp on a Common Hero with 0 move that enemies have to approach has definitely made for an interesting design. In a Yokai build where there is no OM-turn efficiency, giving up on a movement for one of your developed positions can be brutal, but Chomp is of course a great ability in any case. My experience so far has been that 2x Mokumokuren is probably too much with Seimei at 500 points given how limited your movement options become, but I'm curious about Talingul's potential with them.

Quote:
The Rahnik Protector is pretty cool too, I'm liking the interactions with Ramming Spear and Flocking/Flutter. It might be cool if Ramming Spear allowed you to push figures back a space too!
I like that idea for Ramming Spear (and it gets quite nasty when paired with Flutter)! Unfortunately, the card is already pretty wordy thanks to Flutter and Flying, so I'm a bit hesitant to add more text to the card. I took a quick peak at some VC examples of movement like Z'Thoth and the Hoplitrons, and there are a couple of clauses (like LEAs, falling, etc.) that would probably need to be addressed that would make the addition lengthier than I'd prefer.
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Old April 10th, 2021, 01:17 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 4/10/21: Aquilla Yokai Spid

It's time for another Unique Yokai!

This draft has been stuck in a bit of a limbo as I've been trying to figure out the exact mechanics without breaking the game. I'm pretty confident that this version is still untenable and will break the game somehow, so I'd love to get some feedback on the edge cases that ruin everything and ideas for circumventing them if possible.


Notes on Theme:
This is a rough draft for Aquilla's Yokai. Given that each Yokai is intended to represent their general's mechanical themes and really embody what makes them unique, this was a tough one to figure out. Each of the five original generals has overarching themes, and VC has done a great job of building up a mechanical theme of debuffs for Valkrill, but Aquilla's gameplay mechanics are a bit more nebulous by nature. One of the best fits, I think, is the D20: many of her classic units like Spiders, Sujoah, and Mohicans used the D20, and it's one of the few simple gameplay mechanics that doesn't really feel "claimed" by another general. VC's catalogue kind of builds this out further with designs like Myrddin that play around the D20, so it feels like a natural inclusion for Aquilla's Yokai.

Given the amount of freaky spider Yokai out there and Aquilla's large swath of bug and insect figures, it also felt like a great combo to choose one of those legends for her. The Tsuchigumo is essentially a giant, insidious spider (this sculpt is easily taller than Grimnak and double-spaced): it traps the unwary in illusions of comfort or normalcy as it slowly feeds away on them. One of the most prominent examples, for instance, was a story about
Minamoto no Yorimitsu Minamoto no Yorimitsu
traveling. He was being administered medicine by a young retainer, but Yorimitsu's wounds were not healing, so he suspected something was afoot. He slashed at his retainer and his entire reality instantly disappeared, revealing that he was encased in webs and slowly being poisoned by a monstrous spider. It crawled away into its lair, leading him to follow it and finish the job.

Notes on Mechanics:
Ogumo is intended to fulfill the role of a defensive tank for the Yokai. She has solid durability and is able to lure figures into engagement with her if they are unengaged (the intent here is that Yamagumo Snare shuts off when a figure is engaged, to prevent outright stopping movement with a screen of Deathreavers or something). Yokai like Masha Shingai are very useful when paired with her to keep her alive as long as possible, but the Kirin's defensive bonus is mutually exclusive to her Snare, which I like a lot thematically.

Of course, Nure Onna is also a great pairing for Ogumo given that her short ranged attack and high move makes it easy to swap with Nure Onna for the defense penalty, then move back up and shoot at the target from height. This makes her paltry 4 range, 2 attack actually quite situationally strong, especially since the only alternative ranged option for the Yokai right now is Seimei.

Once Ogumo has ensnared enough figures, then Illusion Break becomes a very tempting option--the risk of wounding herself when dispelling the illusion could also be devastating to opponents when several figures are engaged to her. It's worth noting, though, that this is probably going to send her back to your Starting Zone. For the Yokai, giving up on a developed position is often more painful than taking a wound, and Kincho can only develop one additional position per round. The original draft of this power actually explicitly called out Starting Zones, but @Captain Stupendous and others managed to talk me out of developing that mechanic in favor of something a bit more compatible with the tournament scene. I'm not a huge fan of the thematic sacrifice of losing out on her retreating back to her lair when you have no figures left in your Starting Zone, but that mechanic would definitely be an uphill battle despite the Sturla precedent.

The bonding with Fyorlag Spiders is Ogumo's side synergy. It's quite thematic for a huge spider to be leading the others, and I still like the idea of each Yokai being playable in several different builds beyond just Abe no Seimei. Yamagumo Snare becomes much harder to trigger with the Spiders, but Illusion Break is still very useful and her 7 move should help her still have a niche. She's no Quahon, but that's definitely intentional.

Anyway, that's a lot of words on Ogumo, but I think that covers the most important details. It's a very weird design, of course, but I think that it should synergize quite nicely with the Yokai and give them another tool that can be situationally quite useful. Any feedback is welcome as always; I'm particularly interested in thoughts on the powers here (I'm fairly certain that Yamagumo Snare is busted in some way that I haven't thought of yet, and I'm curious if Illusion Break comes across well enough without the Starting Zone "retreat" mechanic).
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