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  #169  
Old April 6th, 2021, 09:12 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
Yea, 5L, 5D would be on par with Siege, still less than Ne-Gok-Sa's 6D, and statistically just slightly better than Tandros Kreel's 7L, 4D, which is I think where we want him as the ultimate meat shield. Now that I think about it regardless of 4L or 5L is 90 points too cheap or right or not sure? Why I ask is NGS is undercosted at 90 but Tandros is over-costed at 120, although they are not 1-to1 as have other powers/uses.
I think 90 is a good guess for 4L 5D, and too low for 5L 5D.
I agree. Maybe 115 for the 5/5?
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  #170  
Old April 7th, 2021, 08:06 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

For what it's worth, I think that there's a much greater appeal to 4L/5D at 90 points here. That keeps him distinct from Tandros Kreel as a cheaper but more niche investment, and the lower price has the potential to slot in quite nicely to our limited meta while still seeing some use in other formats. As a slightly heavier standalone investment, he has to be compared to the likes of Kaemon Awa and Asterios, and the higher base durability leaves a bit more room for frustration.

Ne-Gok-Sa's value doesn't come solely from his defensive stats (the pressure from Mind Shackle and bonding make developing him much more appealing), so I think that Tether of Logos and Combat Challenge are a fair trade for worse defense and less synergy.
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  #171  
Old April 8th, 2021, 11:44 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I'm going to propose changing Life to 4 and Defense to 5.
Yall have convinced me - I second this.
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  #172  
Old May 26th, 2021, 12:52 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

Pinging the other members of Pod 1 to see if they have any strong thoughts on the proposed stat change to 4 life and 5 defense:

@Fakeraistlin @Jaur0n @The Long eared bat

Otherwise, I think that enough time has passed that we can probably call this vote.
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  #173  
Old May 26th, 2021, 04:59 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

Happy with 4 life and 5 defense could argue for 80/85 points rather than 90.
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  #174  
Old May 26th, 2021, 08:49 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

Good for 4L/5D and also 80 pts investment
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  #175  
Old June 7th, 2021, 09:07 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

80 points seems a little cheap to me; I'd prefer to stick to 90 for now and keep an eye on if Dienekes is underperforming in testing, given that he has the potential to be frustrating for opponents when paired with stuff like Raelin or on chokepoint-heavy maps. That's just my observation as an outsider, though, of course.

Price aside, that's 5/6 YEAs. @Scytale , do you mind updating the OP when you get a chance?
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  #176  
Old June 7th, 2021, 09:29 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

This is a unit that gets better with certain army builds and map layouts, and well as advanced game tactics. I think he's a steal for 90.

OP changed to Life 4/Defense 5.

What do people think about limiting Tether to opponent's figures? It's the most natural use of the unit and reigns in his rather high potential (which I suspect will raise the unit's price if playtesters work to maximize Tether with friendlies).
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  #177  
Old June 8th, 2021, 12:00 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

PTI, but I think limiting Tether to opponent's figures is a very good change, especially since it can currently be used as a cheesy and weird way to pull your own figures out of engagement without taking LEAs.
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  #178  
Old June 8th, 2021, 11:05 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

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Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
PTI, but I think limiting Tether to opponent's figures is a very good change, especially since it can currently be used as a cheesy and weird way to pull your own figures out of engagement without taking LEAs.
We have discussed this before, I don't see too many scenarios when you would move your own figures after they end their move but they would be OK with ending if Tether did not trigger - note this happens BEFORE attacks and only for figures you move so your scenario would not happen.

Also I noticed since Cathar Spearman exist it is debatable which would trigger first BRACED SPEAR 16 (also Engagement Strike from Nakita's) or Tether of Logos. If Tether of Logos is second, that combo would be too overpowered as you get wounded then move away and have to try again, but not sure how to word power so so Tether of Logos is done first before other powers mid-move.
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  #179  
Old June 8th, 2021, 11:21 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
We have discussed this before, I don't see too many scenarios when you would move your own figures after they end their move but they would be OK with ending if Tether did not trigger - note this happens BEFORE attacks and only for figures you move so your scenario would not happen.
I can think of lots of reasons to move your own figures! The most obvious is Tethering figures up a hill they can't completely climb, dropping them into height advantage against a figure it can immediately attack while also benefiting from Dienekes's protection. That's really useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
Also I noticed since Cathar Spearman exist it is debatable which would trigger first BRACED SPEAR 16 (also Engagement Strike from Nakita's) or Tether of Logos. If Tether of Logos is second, that combo would be too overpowered as you get wounded then move away and have to try again, but not sure how to word power so so Tether of Logos is done first before other powers mid-move.
Engagement Strike happens during figure movememnt, and Tether happens after movement is complete. Yes, Dienekes could be really good in a Cathar army, as he could trigger a second Braced Spear against a single figure.
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  #180  
Old June 8th, 2021, 11:58 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] DIENEKES (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Testing

As worded in OP
Quote:
If a small or medium figure moves at least one space and ends its movement within 3 clear sight spaces of Dienekes, if it is no more than 3 levels above Dienekes's height or 3 levels below his base, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 7 or higher, place that figure on any same-level space adjacent to Dienekes. If the figure is engaged before it is moved by Tether of Logos, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
Yea I guess you can pull a figure up to 4 more than it can go, but actually I kind of like this as you basically bring up other units next to Dienekes - but is still really ballsy with him as he will still be taking all the attacks. Now that I think about it I would prefer to keep working on freindly figures, but would be Ok if everyone disagreed from either a thematic or a OP playability perspective.

Either way when testing will have to test with Cathar Spearman, Nakita Agents, and Motley Max, and also with/against Warforged Soldiers.
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