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  #73  
Old August 8th, 2020, 04:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol) (Public Playtest)

I would agree that right now Aerial Assault seems like the points driver and I'd rather the Rally power be the points driver. Aerial Assault + Nth Metal against normal attackers is just brutal. Any tweaks down in that combo feel more appealing to me than a major points bump.

I do agree that 60 points up would be too much. I could see how she'd feel that way if you were going against normal attack heavy armies, though.

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  #74  
Old August 8th, 2020, 05:22 PM
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Re: The Book of Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol) (Public Playtest)

Not really loving the idea of limiting it to non-adjacent. She’s a melee fighter who wants to get in and attack to trigger the Rally. You’re making her powers feel disjointed and counter-intuitive by doing that. If we like how she feels and want a point bump, I’d rather just agree on a point value for her and let her shine than take a cohesive design and turn one off one of the powers, which already has a limiter in normal only, for most of the match.
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  #75  
Old August 8th, 2020, 05:35 PM
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Re: The Book of Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol) (Public Playtest)

If I were going to turn a dial, I'd most likely strike the disengage from Aerial Assault or the blanks = shields from Nth Metal Defense. Either of those just kind of create a pile on effect against normal attackers. I don't mind the ranged part and agree it's on theme.

I kind of like striking the disengage, though. It's a pretty simple effect and makes it so you can tie her up in a fight and really limit the effectiveness of her Aerial Assault, but in a way that feels thematic to me.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #76  
Old August 8th, 2020, 07:40 PM
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Re: The Book of Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol) (Public Playtest)

Are we wanting that and a point increase? What does everyone prefer? @Arch-vile ? Do we want more tests with a change or are we confident in a small nerf/point bump?
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  #77  
Old August 8th, 2020, 07:54 PM
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Re: The Book of Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol) (Public Playtest)

What about a switch-up?
Quote:
When rolling defense dice against a special attack, each blank counts as 1 additional shield. When defending against an attack from a figure that is Undead or has the Magical Defense special power, add one automatic shield to whatever is rolled.
Gives her a unique role (buff against SAs), and I like the theme of Nth Metal performing better against "weird stuff."

Definitely would like to see more tests either way. She's had some shaky results, but the White Martians were a seriously bad matchup for her team and losing to the Titans isn't exactly shocking.

I also want to note the only Undead/MD figure she's been up against has been Raven, who isn't really an attack-based design. Don't want Hawkwoman's cost to be too influenced by being a counterdraft to a small handful of units, but an auto-shield w/ counterstrike is also a pretty powerful counterdraft ability to have.
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  #78  
Old August 8th, 2020, 08:12 PM
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Re: The Book of Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol) (Public Playtest)

Since my tests were really the only ones where she felt crazy good, I'm cool with changes being more minor than what I suggested. I'd prefer tweaking down the Aerial Assault + Nth Metal Defense combo personally as it just did not feel fun to play against - any normal attack with fewer attack dice than her defense dice means that the attacker is more likely to get wounded instead. And I didn't even play with Undead/Magical Defense figures, who have even more of a hurdle to get past.

I agree with Bats' assessment that Aerial Assault is the points driver here, but Rally For Justice is the fun power.
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  #79  
Old August 8th, 2020, 08:44 PM
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Re: The Book of Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol) (Public Playtest)

Tempest has Magical Defense too, but he was cranking out unblockables rather than attacking (in part because of her).

MrNobody's switch up idea is a cool one. I think it's worth considering.

I think losing the disengage is the most elegant way to keep the Aerial Assault in check, though combining that with MrNobody's idea could be a good approach.

I'd be happy to run her again (she's fun and the faction is fun) if you decide what you want tested.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #80  
Old August 8th, 2020, 10:49 PM
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Re: The Book of Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol) (Public Playtest)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Definitely would like to see more tests either way. She's had some shaky results, but the White Martians were a seriously bad matchup for her team and losing to the Titans isn't exactly shocking.
Cool with more tests either way, but I disagree with your assessment of her results. She went 3-3 at 260. Her wins were a bit stronger than her losses, which is why I agree with a 20-30 point bump. That said, you can’t minimize her losses when A: The JL as a synergy is actually quite competitive now, and B: Her wins weren’t all against the best opposing armies either. That logic goes both ways. I also don’t think it’s fair to pass off a loss to the Titans as no real shock as if it devalues the loss any, otherwise we should probably stop testing with them or nerf them.

Anyway, I’ll think on it Bats, I appreciate you willing to testing again. I’m not home yet, been up for 37 hours and still driving for another 6 of course, so I’ll let you know by tomorrow morning what I’d like for a minor tweak to reel her in so she’s still fun to play against.
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  #81  
Old August 8th, 2020, 10:56 PM
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Re: The Book of Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol) (Public Playtest)

For sure. And I'll point out that I don't test with "optimal Titans" due to concerns with them. I don't use Superboy (Kon-El) with the trio of Starfire/Raven/Nightwing at all. And without that fourth piece, their defensive pod is solid, but not top tier. Still plenty fun and capable with Cyborg, though!

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #82  
Old August 9th, 2020, 02:37 PM
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Re: The Book of Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol) (Public Playtest)

Here's what I'm thinking:
Quote:
NAME = HAWKWOMAN
SECRET IDENTITY = SHAYERA HOL

SPECIES = THANAGARIAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CHAMPION
PERSONALITY = FIERCE
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 6
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 5
POINTS = 280


RALLY FOR JUSTICE
If Hawkwoman inflicts one or more wounds on an opponent's figure with her normal attack, you may choose a figure you control within clear sight of Hawkwoman. You may either move the chosen figure up to 4 spaces, or place a previously removed green Battery Marker, Justice League Marker, or Order Marker, unrevealed, back onto the chosen figure's Army Card. A figure may only be chosen for Rally for Justice once per round.

NTH METAL DEFENSE
When rolling defense dice, you may count one blank as an extra shield. If the attacking figure is Undead or has the Magical Defense special power, you may instead count all blanks as extra shields.

AERIAL ASSAULT
When Hawkwoman starts to fly, she will not take any leaving engagement attacks. After rolling defense dice against a normal attack, you may immediately move Hawkwoman one space for each shield she has. If she ends this movement engaged with the attacking figure, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on that figure.

SUPER STRENGTH
FLYING
1. No more free disengage should allow the opponent another way to try and avoid the Aerial Assault counter, or make her pay for attempting it.
2. Nth Metal Defense's ceiling has been capped for ~92% of our library.
3. Nth Metal Defense applies to special attacks, to slightly adjust for the 2 previous nerfs, but special attacks will still completely avoid Aerial Assault, as is standard with counter strike powers.
4. 20 point bump to 280 just to be safe.

Should make for a more fun design to go up against, little less punishing, but still enjoyable for the player controlling her.
@IAmBatman @Arch-vile @MrNobody
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  #83  
Old August 9th, 2020, 02:49 PM
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Re: The Book of Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol) (Public Playtest)

Those look like good changes. I'll try to run one tonight for her.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #84  
Old August 9th, 2020, 02:51 PM
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Re: The Book of Hawkwoman (Shayera Hol) (Public Playtest)

I’m happy with that.
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